The Ultimate turntable?

avatar108 said:
I also own a Technics sp10 mk3 I never mentioned it as while it is a lovely object to own I don't really consider it a worthy option. The reason is that I always find mine quite mechanical and grey sounding I have spent a great deal of time isolating it from the outside world but still never does it for me or course this is only my personal observation. Again I have very close friends who adore the technics and simply love it and so they should it all comes down to so many factors apart from sound.

I have a friend who owns a Rockport direct drive this is an interesting beast for sure for me more like the ultimate contender. Recently I noticed on audiogon there was a lovely Goldmund reference for for this is also a great vintage turntable superbly executed and lots of fun indeed.

As peter mentions the the arm cartridge factor is quite a serious consideration with all these wonderful turntables thats why I always end up owning a few turntables at one time. I personally favour air bearing tonearms in every way again you will get many who say the bass is weak and maybe in some ways it is, but with careful cartridge matching for me this can be addressed. I just find the sound of air bearing arms just less mechanical and ultimately more involving. The wonderful thing is that its not my opinion that matters and there is so much choice these days this is what makes it fun. If I had the space or the funds I would own 30 turntables yes it would drive me crazy but think of all the fun I would have not ever really knowing which one is is the real ultimate.
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Now that is a great post for me one of your key words was (involving) if you do not have that one point in spades long term goes right out the window. A few points that seem to get lost are is the company able and willing to stand behind their product long term 10 to 20 years. How hard is the set up and does it stay set up or is it a problem child. For long term simpler seems better to me IMO only . The more belts, hoses, Heated bearings, the more bearings, Air pumps, fluids, Servo motors , and voodoo you have the more to go wrong.

Who ever said ( the best analog front end is the best set up analog front end) said a mouth full and the simpler it is the better chance it might happen. Gadgets are cool but do you need them long term.
Things I have added and used long term a good record brush, a good light over the table , good record sleeves, cleaner fluids for the needle , a demag and ultrasonic record washer. Some cheap some not. Things I added and did not use a analog to digital converter and a computer inventory program for records. Some of it is personal are you the type to come home and mix the perfect cocktail with all fresh what ever or are you just going to open a beer. Simple is not worst thing you can do and better is not always a add on or expensive .
 
Dear Avatar 108,

I am in the process of selecting my last turntable. I am focused on the Basis Audio Inspiration and on the TechDAS Air Force One.

I am intrigued by your statement that in some way the Air Force One "seems to rob the music" and does not sound as "musically natural" or "human" as other turntables in your inventory. Would you please elaborate?

Thank you.
 
XV-1 said:
Add those two for sure, but the Technics is hard to get.

Of course not forgetting the belt drives. I would also love to hear either Tech Das. I can quite easily get to hear the AF-2 , but can't afford it so don't want to waste the importers time.

Cheers
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Remember the speed control on the old Technics is no where as good as modern tables because of the Hall effect and the cycle they chose for error correction.
 
RonR said:
Dear Avatar 108,

I am in the process of selecting my last turntable. I am focused on the Basis Audio Inspiration and on the TechDAS Air Force One.

I am intrigued by your statement that in some way the Air Force One "seems to rob the music" and does not sound as "musically natural" or "human" as other turntables in your inventory. Would you please elaborate?

Thank you.
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This was in comparison to The Kodo Beat and the air tangent I have not had the tech das that long only 3 months and have not experimented with other arms. I have been using the Devinci Vertu I also have the Graham Elite but thats another subject its not for me I prefer the Virtu. I am also getting to hear the SAT arm from sweden soon that is supposed to be the natural partner for the Airforce lets see.

In isolation the Air Force One is great big powerful lots of body and scale simply superb, now in direct comparison to the Kodo it is for me I must add a little forceful and not so exciting the Kodo with the air bearing just sounds sweeter and has a full bodied midrange and more exciting I want to listen more where the tech das sounds heavy and sterile. I suppose I like the mechanical freedom offered by the Beat and Airtangent Reference it sounds very classy and highly involving.

I must point out on its own I love the tech das a lot, and am so happy I own one and would recommend it to anyone, as a superbly engineered turntable. I am so fed up of people they claim they own the best its all subjective and great fun thats all. The Tech Das feels superbly well made like the sme 30/12 which is stunning I have not had to contact Tech Das as of yet but expect a high level of after sales service. Sme in the UK what I think is the finest after sales in the world period nothing like them which is a great achievement. I used to own a Continuum Caliburn Cobra combination that was always giving me so many problems and was not so well made but was a lovely sounding turntable in its own way.
 
avatar108 said:
This was in comparison to The Kodo Beat and the air tangent I have not had the tech das that long only 3 months and have not experimented with other arms. I have been using the Devinci Vertu I also have the Graham Elite but thats another subject its not for me I prefer the Virtu. I am also getting to hear the SAT arm from sweden soon that is supposed to be the natural partner for the Airforce lets see.

In isolation the Air Force One is great big powerful lots of body and scale simply superb, now in direct comparison to the Kodo it is for me I must add a little forceful and not so exciting the Kodo with the air bearing just sounds sweeter and has a full bodied midrange and more exciting I want to listen more where the tech das sounds heavy and sterile. I suppose I like the mechanical freedom offered by the Beat and Airtangent Reference it sounds very classy and highly involving.

I must point out on its own I love the tech das a lot, and am so happy I own one and would recommend it to anyone, as a superbly engineered turntable. I am so fed up of people they claim they own the best its all subjective and great fun thats all. The Tech Das feels superbly well made like the sme 30/12 which is stunning I have not had to contact Tech Das as of yet but expect a high level of after sales service. Sme in the UK what I think is the finest after sales in the world period nothing like them which is a great achievement. I used to own a Continuum Caliburn Cobra combination that was always giving me so many problems and was not so well made but was a lovely sounding turntable in its own way.
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avatar108, I agree with you about the outstanding service and extremely high quality of construction and design of SME. Would you care to share your impressions of the 30/12 compared to some of your other tables? I heard the Kodo at an audio show in 2010 and went back to the demo four times because the sound of that system was so good. I could not isolate the sound of the turntable from that of the rest of the system, but since that experience, I've always thought very highly of that DD table.

You have owned some very excellent turntables and I agree that it should be all about how much fun one has with this stuff.
 
PeterA said:
avatar108, I agree with you about the outstanding service and extremely high quality of construction and design of SME. Would you care to share your impressions of the 30/12 compared to some of your other tables? I heard the Kodo at an audio show in 2010 and went back to the demo four times because the sound of that system was so good. I could not isolate the sound of the turntable from that of the rest of the system, but since that experience, I've always thought very highly of that DD table.

You have owned some very excellent turntables and I agree that it should be all about how much fun one has with this stuff.
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Peter I am very fond of the excellent 30/12 it offers superb build quality, and the company will stand by there products no matter what. I think it is a superb turntable with the V/12 very stable superb uncoloured performance, again it is a superb performer at the price. Its always hard to write about comparisons as the Tonearm and its relation to the pickup cartridge have to be considered. The 30/12 with the V/12 it is a superb formidable I think compared to the Beat/Airtangent it is a little darker and maybe a bit dry but very enjoyable but a tad retrained. It has great finesse but lacks a little drama and excitement.The beat combo never sounds hard or aggressive but has a sense of air and freedom, I have mounted the air tangent on it and it was superb again the character of the table shines through. The techdas is quite similar to the 30/12 but on a grander scale.

All I can say its a lovely turntable and a strong contender I like it a lot thats why it stays with me despite occasionally me hankering for a different performance. The fact is what is absolute does it really exist for now I continue playing and having more fun.
 
RonR said:
Dear Avatar 108,

I am in the process of selecting my last turntable. I am focused on the Basis Audio Inspiration and on the TechDAS Air Force One.

I am intrigued by your statement that in some way the Air Force One "seems to rob the music" and does not sound as "musically natural" or "human" as other turntables in your inventory. Would you please elaborate?

Thank you.
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The AF1 can sound very different depending on the upper platter selection. I have both the duralumin and stainless upper platters. I much prefer the stainless with no platter mat. Robbing the music ? I don't think so. Keep in mind everyone's system/room sounds different..including choice of phono pre. I will add that the dura platter with the foam mat sounds much more neutral with less color than the stainless. If you want to liven things up and get deeper bass, the stainless is the way to go. It's all about voicing to your room and components. I also highly recommend active isolation such as the Table Stable TS 140. You need to have the HRS shelf though in order to fit the AF1 on the TS140.
 
rockitman said:
The AF1 can sound very different depending on the upper platter selection. I have both the duralumin and stainless upper platters. I much prefer the stainless with no platter mat. Robbing the music ? I don't think so. Keep in mind everyone's system/room sounds different..including choice of phono pre. I will add that the dura platter with the foam mat sounds much more neutral with less color than the stainless. If you want to liven things up and get deeper bass, the stainless is the way to go. It's all about voicing to your room and components. I also highly recommend active isolation such as the Table Stable TS 140. You need to have the HRS shelf though in order to fit the AF1 on the TS140.
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Thank you for your response Rocket man, I have all three of the platters available I generally like the acrylic platter best but again as you say its system dependent and not forgetting the room. I think the AF1 is stunning and want to try more arms on my opinion which is just an opinion nothing else what do i know any way is based on using it with the De vinci vertu and the Phantom Elite of which I personally prefer the De Vinci. The bass weight on the tech das is simply amazing in a class of its own.

I love the Tech Das its not going anywhere its just I like my Humble Kodo Beat Airtangent Reference a bit more in some areas as I find it more enjoyable and musical with a lovely natural midrange. i have not spent much time isolating the Kodo either as much as I have on the Tech Das.

These are just my own opinions based on my own direct comparisons. But as I said when i listen to the tech das I love it for many other reasons it is simply a wonderful turntable stunning and never never regret buying it. I also own a Continnum Cobra tonearm which I will mount on it soon lets see what happens there.

My main point is that we can get carried away my opinion does not count for much at this level there are lots of great turntables simply amazing one I respect all of them for different reasons and we all like different things the notion of one being the ultimate is not appealing hence I own a few.


What cartridges are do use prefer on the AF1/
 
I made my choice. AF1. Silence of a belt, rock and sock of a DD and drive of an idler. That and I'm allergic to tables that bounce around when I'm not careful. I HAVE wrecked an expensive cart that way so no thanks. I'm not hyper, just clumsy at times.

Like Christian I have two of the 3 upper platters. In my system and to my ears, the duralumin upper is best. I also have a growing number of hot swappable armboards to...errrrr....hotswap entire arms. Because all boards are hard drilled via CNC, once set up all it takes is a hex driver and four bolts to remove and replace. My Kuzma 4-Point board arrived from Japan. Ironically, it arrived while I myself am in Japan. Also ironically I was the one that got the geometry info from Franc sometime back and TD programmed it with F.K.'s thumbs up in CAD for the CNC part later. Come to think of it I was also the go between with Da Vinci. Since the 4-point's unique geometry doesn't allow it to be used in the rear position it will move to the front and the Elite will move to the rear. :D

Ahh I'm cheating like Christian because not only did I buy one, I became the distributor. I have only sold one other AF1 but the AF2 is doing well. If I were to choose one table that I don't carry, actually I have no intentions of carrying any more tables, I would go with the Bergmann Sleipner just because it looks so damn cool. If the AF1 looks like it came out of an episode of Macross the Slepner is the opposite. That scan-slick-chic stuff is lovely.
 
JackD said:
I made my choice. AF1. Silence of a belt, rock and sock of a DD and drive of an idler. That and I'm allergic to tables that bounce around when I'm not careful. I HAVE wrecked an expensive cart that way so no thanks. I'm not hyper, just clumsy at times.

Like Christian I have two of the 3 upper platters. In my system and to my ears, the duralumin upper is best. I also have a growing number of hot swappable armboards to...errrrr....hotswap entire arms. Because all boards are hard drilled via CNC, once set up all it takes is a hex driver and four bolts to remove and replace. My Kuzma 4-Point board arrived from Japan. Ironically, it arrived while I myself am in Japan. Also ironically I was the one that got the geometry info from Franc sometime back and TD programmed it with F.K.'s thumbs up in CAD for the CNC part later. Come to think of it I was also the go between with Da Vinci. Since the 4-point's unique geometry doesn't allow it to be used in the rear position it will move to the front and the Elite will move to the rear. :D

Ahh I'm cheating like Christian because not only did I buy one, I became the distributor. I have only sold one other AF1 but the AF2 is doing well. If I were to choose one table that I don't carry, actually I have no intentions of carrying any more tables, I would go with the Bergmann Sleipner just because it looks so damn cool. If the AF1 looks like it came out of an episode of Macross the Slepner is the opposite. That scan-slick-chic stuff is lovely.
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Jack I did own a Begmann Sleipner in my quest of turntables for a very short period, I just love the simple lines simply stunning generally I don't get on with low pressure air bearing designs they always sound a little weak in the bottom registers the Bergmann seems to have this quality but agin with a magical midrange again a very elegant solution indeed. I am fascinated to hear the SAT arm on the Airforce one I am hopeful that this will be a fine partnership lets see.
 
rockitman said:
I switch between the Koetsu Coralstone, Tiger Eye and Dynavector XV-1t on the 10" Elite Arm and use a Lyra Olympos mono on the rear 12" Supreme arm.
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I favour the Stone bodied koetsu cartridges too have the Tiger Eye,coral stone,jade,blue onyx, and Blood Stone all with diamond cantilevers
 
avatar108 said:
I favour the Stone bodied koetsu cartridges too have the Tiger Eye,coral stone,jade,blue onyx, and Blood Stone all with diamond cantilevers
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Stunning. And I thought the collection of turntables was impressive. There must be some nice sounds in that system, all in service to the music, of course.
 
Just arrived. Technics SL-1000MK3D with my EPC-P100C-MK4 cartridge, the combo is sounding superb. :P


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Nice! I think Ki Choi has one of his, with AF plinth, for sale if anyone is looking.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I'd be happy with a Pluto, Feickert or Reed turntable even they cost more then most people earn in a year.
 
oh Technics SL-1000MK3D with my EPC-P100C-MK4 or Technics SL-10 MK3D with my EPC-P100C-MK4 ? It's my dream !!! Beautiful !!!!
 
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