Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

[Mike]

Ok...we are off topic (my fault).....back to the 604 AINiCO speakers.


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[Cucumber_jones]

Kevin where are you?


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[mep]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think they look fantastic. I also think most modern speakers look like a pile of shit.

Mep - ken does more then cram some altec drivers in a box.

For those who don't care for the look of shindo or have never heard a shindo system why not keep your negotiate opinions to yourselves.


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Instead of getting defensive, why not answer the basic questions I asked? Does Shindo modify the 604 drivers? What sets the Shindo cabinet apart from the cabinet that Altec designed to house the 604 drivers for recording studios to be used as monitors? I'm not attacking the Shindo 604 speakers, just asking some basic questions. Cripes.

 

[Cucumber_jones]

Mep. I neither own them or work in the business. I do know that ken modified every thing he built. I would love to see what is in the cabinet but I bet I never will.


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[kev313]

hmmm i see its ok for you to express your negative opinion but others cant? im just giving my opinion on these. like i do any other product on this forum. doesnt matter the manufacturer. only in this shindo forum, people take it personally. even when they dont even own the product in question.
its funny you think only the people who dont like shindo are ones who never heard shindo.
very very untrue.
lighten up some will ya , i hate my speakers too, and alot of others that i comment about .
these speaker look like a diy joke to me. sorry.

A diy joke...that's an interesting phrase. DIY perhaps in the sense that Shindo diy'd it probably 30 years ago if not more and refined the design until his death. I suppose beauty is in the eye of the beholder. These are mine, but they are field could not alnico and at a $25,000 premium over the alnico pictured, I suppose I had a wide range of looks to choose from in speakers. I think the Shondo are beautiful. I came from Tannoy prestige series and the Shindo do feel crafted as opposed to the "produced" feel of the Tannoy. Take out of that what you will.

And the sound....please. It's amazing. Like the op, I've got a VR with the GM70. The 604 in my room is like a tailor made speaker in an electronic system designed for it. It's amazing. To me, and to most Shindoists, music reproduction and system building is not an art, it is art. Many do not appreciate this approach. That's ok. There is a dark corner for everyone in this hobby.

One of my favorite pieces on this topic - by Herb R. And actually currently posted at Enjoy the Music - touches on this approach:

"To be successful at building an amp or speakers, I maintain you must PICTURE, in your mind, how you will look and how you will feel playing discs. I mean how it will feel to put the disc on/in the player. I mean how you think you will look in the room lighting, standing in front of the player and between the speakers. I mean try to imagine how you will feel putting on the disc and sitting in the chair, dreaming and carrying on, in the new world you have created. This is your time machine, your sanctuary. This is your religion. You are the wizard, the movie director, the conductor, the mad scientist! When you create your own music system, you create you own new music culture. I really like the feel of playing 78s. It takes me somewhere."

Shindo as a DIY joke. It's a somewhat coarse statement. A sentiment poorly expressed, perhaps. Yes, they look like a wooden box and, yes, probably most people assume that they can build a wooden box. No, they are not made of space age material and, no, they don't come in Lamborghini paint colors. To those who are familiar with and appreciate a Japanese aesthetic and to those who understand the multi decade artisanal approach to the craft employed by Shindo, they are near the pinnacle of what can be achieved in this approach to the hobby.

 

[kev313]

Instead of getting defensive, why not answer the basic questions I asked? Does Shindo modify the 604 drivers? What sets the Shindo cabinet apart from the cabinet that Altec designed to house the 604 drivers for recording studios to be used as monitors? I'm not attacking the Shindo 604 speakers, just asking some basic questions. Cripes.

I cannot speak to the alnico. On mine Shindo converts the drivers to field coil and builds a custom power supply. There is also a customer crossover. As to the cabinet, bracing, porting and internal stuffing and wiring are unique as they are with anyone who builds their own enclosure. It's like his Garrard plinth. Anyone can build one...he refined his over the course of nearly 4 decades.

Look, really, if you don't like it, but some GPA drivers and stuff em in a home brew box. I've done that too and it ain't half bad. No one needs 30 to 60k speakers, but they sure sound nice.

Here are the standard veneers taken by Matt showing accurate color.

 

[kev313]

Kevin where are you?


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Don't come around much...for reasons plainly obvious in the thread. I mean, buy the freaking westminsters... They are ok. Maybe not the match with Shindo electronics that Shindo speakers would be but not too shabby. I personally look at this and ask myself whether this speaker was designed and tuned over the course of a career to match my system.

 

[kev313]

They sound how they look?

I had a chance to listen to Paul's Shindo amp/preamp this past weekend. It's very very pretty sounding and what astonished me was how quiet the backgrounds were (for tube amps). But at the end of the day, I found the Shindo gear rolled off on the top and struggling with complex/dynamic music (example: Mahler). If you listen to female vocals and acoustic guitar and that sort of thing, then they sounded oh so romantically delightful. I now better understand the love for these little green boxes.


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Contrary to prior posts, this phenomenon may be able to be explained by .., specs. This is also why JH is constantly willing to take the heat from know it alls while advocating a system approach.

 

[Mike]

Don't come around much...for reasons plainly obvious in the thread. I mean, buy the freaking westminsters... They are ok. Maybe not the match with Shindo electronics that Shindo speakers would be but not too shabby. I personally look at this and ask myself whether this speaker was designed and tuned over the course of a career to match my system. View attachment 8356

Kev - any shots of the inside of the Shindo speakers?


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[kev313]

Kev - any shots of the inside of the Shindo speakers?


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Not from me, my friend. As you might guess, one of the side benefits of being a Shindo owner is dealing with the Shindo black marketeers who contact you looking for pictures, measurements, cap values etc for reverse engineering purposes. I don't claim to know anything about the experience of other participants here. But if you are familiar with this corner of audio - and by this I mean small volume tube producers who wade the same waters as WE, Altec, etc - you have been to the larger DIY forums where there is a robust international discussion devoted to discussing and copying Shindo circuits and designs.

 

[Paul]

Kev - any shots of the inside of the Shindo speakers?


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Mike, the pic shown on Kev's post is done by Jeff Day's pic - it only shows as high-frequency crossover—located in the bottom front of the loudspeaker—is to allow the high-frequency information from the music signal to pass through to the high-frequency compression horn driver unit, while filtering out the low-frequency information.

other one is role of the low-frequency crossover—located in the top of the cabinet above the Dual Concentric™ driver—is to allow the low-frequency information from the music signal to pass through to the fifteen-inch direct radiating low frequency driver while filtering out the high frequency information.( again Jeff's pic )

Also my Westminster GR is different cross over than Jeff's previous version. here is new one.

Yes I also like to see inside of shindo speakers as well.

 

[briguy]

I can understand why the Shindo sound might not appeal to some. I can also understand the underlying psychological resistance to a single brand system approach. Let's face it, the people attracted to this hobby are mostly of above average intelligence (or think of themselves that way), want something unique to their ears, and like to try different combinations.

A system approach kinda eliminates the thinking and tweaking part of the hobby. That can be hard for some to accept, particularly if they've invested in other stuff and mostly enjoy what they've built. You don't even roll the tubes in a Shindo!

It's not a criticism, just an observation of the type-A personalities (myself included) who are attracted to this hobby. To each his own, right?

For me personally, I don't want to take the time to audition everything under the sun trying to find the one combination that does everything I want it to do. I'm not Don Quixote dreaming the never-ending impossible dream. I'd rather spend my time seeking out good music.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think that the Shindo system I'm putting together compromises much. But even if it isn't perfect, I think I can build once and be very happy for a decade or so before I start itching to try some other approach.

Criticism regarding price/value is probably fair, even if one hasn't heard a system like this. Let's face it, HiFi is art and art is subjective. Why is one Picaso more valuable than another? Who cares? It's worth what someone is willing to pay to get it. That said, good luck to anyone trying to re-sell your DIY version of this speaker.

 

[kev313]

Mike, the pic shown on Kev's post is done by Jeff Day's pic - it only shows as high-frequency crossover—located in the bottom front of the loudspeaker—is to allow the high-frequency information from the music signal to pass through to the high-frequency compression horn driver unit, while filtering out the low-frequency information.

other one is he role of the low-frequency crossover—located in the top of the cabinet above the Dual Concentric[emoji769] driver—is to allow the low-frequency information from the music signal to pass through to the fifteen-inch direct radiating low frequency driver while filtering out the high frequency information.( again Jeff's pic )

Also my Westminster GR is different cross over than Jeff's previous version. here is new one.

Yes I also like to see inside of shindo speakers as well.

Why do you want to see the inside of a Shindo speaker?

 

[Mike]

Why do you want to see the inside of a Shindo speaker?

I'm curious as to what makes them different from Altec 604's. For $34,000, its a fair question.

Next time I visit CA, I will definitely give them a listen.


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[Paul]

Why do you want to see the inside of a Shindo speaker?

Never mind.

 

[Petro85]

Mike, the pic shown on Kev's post is done by Jeff Day's pic - it only shows as high-frequency crossover—located in the bottom front of the loudspeaker—is to allow the high-frequency information from the music signal to pass through to the high-frequency compression horn driver unit, while filtering out the low-frequency information.

other one is role of the low-frequency crossover—located in the top of the cabinet above the Dual Concentric™ driver—is to allow the low-frequency information from the music signal to pass through to the fifteen-inch direct radiating low frequency driver while filtering out the high frequency information.( again Jeff's pic )

Also my Westminster GR is different cross over than Jeff's previous version. here is new one.

Yes I also like to see inside of shindo speakers as well.

that is very cool Paul, which level do you sleep on? lol. seriously beautiful speakers.
nuff said!!!

 

[kev313]

Different from which altec 604? In what cabinet? With what type of crossover? The comparison is incomplete. For a pure value question, you could probably buy 604 drivers (maybe 2500 is going ebay rate for early 604), have cabinets built (2500 for similar cabinets), and buy a nice crossover for 1500? Maybe another 1000 to get it out together? I have no idea. I'm making some of these numbers up. So a competent diy version is 1/5 the retail cost. Maybe competent. Ebay drivers, ebay crossover, cabinet of uncertain quality. Or x5 for a unit custom made by a family who has been doing it for decades and tuning it to match my electronics. Or plus 52.5k for the FC version. I'll take the FC version.

 

[Paul]

that is very cool Paul, which level do you sleep on? lol. seriously beautiful speakers.
nuff said!!!

Thanks Steve. Sorry guys lets get back to original topic.

 

[puroagave]

I'm curious as to what makes them different from Altec 604's. For $34,000, its a fair question.

Next time I visit CA, I will definitely give them a listen.


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whoa...i didn't realize they were so dear. i've got to make it over to Matt's place when i'm in the area to hear what the fuss is about. I haven't had the pleasure of hearing a full-on 'tone imports' system.

 

[kev313]

that is very cool Paul, which level do you sleep on? lol. seriously beautiful speakers.
nuff said!!!

"Nuff said"?! NOW you're talking like a true horny! That's what I'm talking bout. Get my Klipsch blood boiling and I'm going back to my Cornwalls!! Ha. Miss those Cornwalls sometimes... A simpler time. A different audio America.