Why do high-end cables cost so much?

A

AVphile

Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2018
Messages
98
Location
Las Vegas
The cost of a cable to the end-user is composed of its materials, labor, overhead and profit margin, as well as the dealer markup. I am currently looking at upgrading my power cord from the wall outlet to my voltage regulator. The replacement candidates will cost me (pretax) from $450 to $800.

For me, this is a lot of money. I’d like to know what in their manufacture costs so much to justify such high prices.

Comments from representatives of cable manufacturers are especially welcome.
 
:popcorn:

What is wrong with the one you are using? Why do you think you have to spend that much? You seem to already be using really good PCs.

Have you auditioned the "new ones" in your system to see if they better what you have?
 
It should be more about system synergy than a dollar amount.

What good is an Aq dragon or say a sigma nr in a Low resolution system with speakers that cost less than the cable ? Just an example

You own a Denali S as per your signature. If so , why not a Shunyata delta ?

Shunyata will also suggest that your best power cable should be one from conditioner to the wall.
 
AVphile.......You stated, "The cost of a cable to the end-user is composed of its materials, labor, overhead and profit margin, as well as the dealer markup." There is considerably more to it than that. There is the cost of research and development, proto-type manufacturing and testing, marketing and advertising, sales representation, shipping, returns, audio shows, and more. You speak of overhead as a single item but of course it is much more than that. Overhead consists of rent or mortgage for facilities, maintenance and cleaning of facilities, property taxes, federal taxes, state taxes, unemployment compensation funding, employer's share of social security, healthcare insurance, workers compensation insurance, utilities, communication costs, and more. Overhead can dramatically impact a product's retail cost, which is just one reason the guy assembling cables in his garage and selling them on the Internet can do so at costs the larger companies cannot approach. Most major cable manufacturers do not actually make their cables. The process of wire extrusion, dielectric extrusion, bulk packing and shipping to an audio cable manufacturer is done at independent facilities under contract to the specifications of the audio cable company. This adds cost to the overhead. And yes, then there is the retail markup, typically 40 to 50 points. This allows the retailer to offer discounts to perspective buyers to close a sale while stil maintaining an acceptable profit margin that supports the retail business.

Don't misunderstand my comments. I am not trying to justify any manufacturers pricing structure. I am merely attempting to demonstrate that there are many variables in any manufacturing process that impact its perceived and real value from raw materials to the completed product at a retail facility. I am just as shocked as you by the price of some audio cables and wonder how the numbers can be justified, but ultimately it is the consumer that controls the show. If something of a particular worth exceeds your sense of value, ignore it, don't make the purchase. Value of all things is in the eye of the beholder. You vote with your wallet.
 
To Gents Who Responded So Far:

Thank you for your comments. Right now I am using a $90 Virtual Dynamic power cord which is so heavy it pulls aways from the wall socket; this cord is being used to power my Exact Power voltage regulator. My dealer loaned me a Shunyata Delta NR power cord. There is no question that there is an improvement in the "blackness" of the background and the specificity of instruments and voice(s) in the playback.

If price wasn't a consideration, I would simply purchase the $800 Delta power cord. Fortunately, in a couple of weeks I'll be able to A/B that power cord with Shunyata's new $450 Venom NR-V10 power cord. Hopefully, I won't detect any material sonic difference between them.

Regardless, I am curious as to why they -- and their peers -- cost so much. To JDAndy, I appreciate your detailed explanation of the cost components; I would still like to know how they break down on a percentage basis. My own guess is that, before its profit to the manufacturer, a $500 power cord costs -- all in -- perhaps $150. Of that, actual materials are maybe $50?​
 
jdandy said:
AVphile.......You state, "The cost of a cable to the end-user is composed of its materials, labor, overhead and profit margin, as well as the dealer markup." There is considerably more to it than that. There is the cost of research and development, proto-type manufacturing and testing, marketing and advertising, sales representation, shipping, returns, audio shows, and more. You speak of overhead as a single item but of course it is much more than that. Overhead consists of rent or mortgage for facilities, maintenance and cleaning of facilities, property taxes, federal taxes, state taxes, unemployment compensation funding, employer's share of social security, healthcare insurance, workers compensation insurance, utilities, communication costs, and more. Overhead can dramatically impact a product's retail cost, which is just one reason the guy assembling cables in his garage and selling them on the Internet can do so at costs the larger companies cannot approach. Most major cable manufacturers do not actually make their cables. The process of wire extrusion, dielectric extrusion, bulk packing and shipping to an audio cable manufacturer is done at independent facilities under contract to the specifications of the audio cable company. This adds cost to the overhead. And yes, then there is the retail markup, typically 40 to 50 points. This allows the retailer to offer discounts to perspective buyers to close a sale while stil maintaining an acceptable profit margin that supports the retail business.

Don't misunderstand my comments. I am not trying to justify any manufacturers pricing structure. I am merely attempting to demonstrate that there are many variables in any manufacturing process that impact its perceived and real value from raw materials to the completed product at a retail facility. I am just as shocked as you by the price of some audio cables and wonder how the numbers can be justified, but ultimately it is the consumer that controls the show. If something of a particular worth exceeds your sense of value, ignore it, don't make the purchase. Value of all things is in the eye of the beholder. You vote with your wallet.
Click to expand...


That is the best statement I’ve read In all my years on audio forums. I agree 100%

Thank you
 
AVphile said:
To Gents Who Responded So Far:

Thank you for your comments. Right now I am using a $90 Virtual Dynamic power cord which is so heavy it pulls aways from the wall socket; this cord is being used to power my Exact Power voltage regulator. My dealer loaned me a Shunyata Delta NR power cord. There is no question that there is an improvement in the "blackness" of the background and the specificity of instruments and voice(s) in the playback.

If price wasn't a consideration, I would simply purchase the $800 Delta power cord. Fortunately, in a couple of weeks I'll be able to A/B that power cord with Shunyata's new $450 Venom NR-V10 power cord. Hopefully, I won't detect any material sonic difference between them.

Regardless, I am curious as to why they -- and their peers -- cost so much. To JDAndy, I appreciate your detailed explanation of the cost components; I would still like to know how they break down on a percentage basis. My own guess is that, before its profit to the manufacturer, a $500 power cord costs -- all in -- perhaps $150. Of that, actual materials are maybe $50?​
Click to expand...

They also pull away from the IEC inlet on your gear. That's why they invented cable bras.
 
AVphile said:

Regardless, I am curious as to why they -- and their peers -- cost so much. To JDAndy, I appreciate your detailed explanation of the cost components; I would still like to know how they break down on a percentage basis. My own guess is that, before its profit to the manufacturer, a $500 power cord costs -- all in -- perhaps $150. Of that, actual materials are maybe $50?​
Click to expand...

It’s a bit difficult to put a percentage to the markup. Different factors come into play as per Dan’s explanation above.

That being said and without naming a manufacturer I was once able to purchase something with an MSRP in the thousands of dollars from a certified dealer for 50% off the MSRP. This was a current model and not one that was on its way out for something new from the manufacturer. I’m very certain the dealer made a nice profit as well.

Then an you have certain manufacturers that the dealer as very little wiggle room for a discount and possibly no discount at all.

So all that being said, it all depends! :)
 
Good post.

High end cables have a limited market, and, I assume, are made by hand, so that is a factor in their cost. Of course, as with anything, there are good, honest vendors, and vendors who grossly over charge for their products. Buyer beware. :)
 
Why do high-end cables cost so much?

The simple answer is because we, the consumers, will pay the crazy prices! We can hear the differences and will buy them. It has little to do with manufacturing/mark-up costs. In my case, it's Shunyata PC's, distribution devices, and Typhon conditioners. Crazy expensive, but worth it because I hear the results. Robust, clean power is essential for optimal performance of your gear. IC's, IMHO, not so much.
 
For some manufacturers they charge as much as they feel they can get away with. To hell with all the overhead, material cost, formulas ETC ETC.
After all as with many things in this hobby it's the "Flavor of the month". There is no justification it's just what some of us audiofools will pay.
Not saying that their product doesn't sound good.
Then there are other manufacturers that offer true value products such as Triode Wire Labs and Audio Sensibilities among others.
Some of the big boys such as Audioquest and Shunyata (among others) apply a lot of science and R&D to their products vs garage cable makers and produce cables at more realistic prices.
I don't think you can accurately come up with any real cost ratios.
As has been previously said "vote with your wallet"
 
Why does anything cost so much?

In Alaska, the grounds price for Sockeye Salmon is around $1.50 per pound yet at the grocer it’s $13.99.

Here you have angry fisherman who see this price at the grocery story then go on to say they work their butts off and should be paid significantly more, then you have the retailer who says they have to discount or throw away what does not sell in addition to all the associated costs to get product to market - if your the fisherman it’s easy to call the retailer greedy.

JDandy Dan begins to lay it out nicely but there is much more.

You will always have opinions of why things are overpriced and why some do not even work, but really if you want to be in control, get in the game and experience the reality of business, it’s an eye opener for sure.

While I don’t disagree cable is expensive, it does bring the most out of my system that is even more expensive, where does it stop? Well that’s up to the participant.

I want and certainly don’t need a new Rolls Royce Wraith, but it’s a little over three times the cost of my Cadillac and still only gets me from A to B.

The best part, I don’t need to do anything I don’t want to do. My business is me and the freedom to rant on a public forum [emoji851]


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
jdandy said:
AVphile.......You stated, "The cost of a cable to the end-user is composed of its materials, labor, overhead and profit margin, as well as the dealer markup." There is considerably more to it than that. There is the cost of research and development, proto-type manufacturing and testing, marketing and advertising, sales representation, shipping, returns, audio shows, and more. You speak of overhead as a single item but of course it is much more than that. Overhead consists of rent or mortgage for facilities, maintenance and cleaning of facilities, property taxes, federal taxes, state taxes, unemployment compensation funding, employer's share of social security, healthcare insurance, workers compensation insurance, utilities, communication costs, and more. Overhead can dramatically impact a product's retail cost, which is just one reason the guy assembling cables in his garage and selling them on the Internet can do so at costs the larger companies cannot approach. Most major cable manufacturers do not actually make their cables. The process of wire extrusion, dielectric extrusion, bulk packing and shipping to an audio cable manufacturer is done at independent facilities under contract to the specifications of the audio cable company. This adds cost to the overhead. And yes, then there is the retail markup, typically 40 to 50 points. This allows the retailer to offer discounts to perspective buyers to close a sale while stil maintaining an acceptable profit margin that supports the retail business.

Don't misunderstand my comments. I am not trying to justify any manufacturers pricing structure. I am merely attempting to demonstrate that there are many variables in any manufacturing process that impact its perceived and real value from raw materials to the completed product at a retail facility. I am just as shocked as you by the price of some audio cables and wonder how the numbers can be justified, but ultimately it is the consumer that controls the show. If something of a particular worth exceeds your sense of value, ignore it, don't make the purchase. Value of all things is in the eye of the beholder. You vote with your wallet.
Click to expand...

Good post!
 
because of the "magic" inside...

attachment.php
 

Attachments

  • Transparent_Reference_XL_SS.jpg
    Transparent_Reference_XL_SS.jpg
    88.2 KB · Views: 159
Why do high-end cables cost so much?
Because to many audiophiles:
high cost = high-end.

* * * * * * * * *
But in fact the best cables are made by the major bulk cable manufactures like Belden (and others).
 
Speedskater if you think that cables cost too much and you can do the same or better for a lover price , please feel free to do so.
No one are forcing you to buy something you think is too expensive.
 
The price of a high ticket item in any market, defined as the top tier, is set more by marketing perception than total cost to manufacture. Yes, there can certainly be valid technical claims a cable company bases with a high price from but in the end, it’s all about the brand image a company targets for their company/products and what the competition allows them to charge. Their how is to set their prices as high as the market allows.

as San said, you have to judge the value proposition for your self.
 
Mike said:
In comparison...

142ffbf62eb289bd9dabcedac6f24bb1.jpg
Click to expand...

"More than Just Cable!" Right. It's a giant tone control. Amplifiers were designed to be connected straight to speakers via speaker cable. Now the amplifier is driving another circuit before the output of that circuit reaches the speakers.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top