Top Tier Amps

great thread ...really thought provoking -- in a good way.

all day i have been seriously struggling with the consumer perception aspect you are trying to drill down on. and, every time i try to get my head around it there is just no way i can reconcile it with most of the list. taking performance completely out of the equation really begs the question: what then is actually left and what is it about a brand that appeals to me?

my take on the list (particularly as initially specified) is that there is nothing special about most of the brands. they are just different versions of an expensive box full of electrical parts. what then is there to get excited about? there is no uniqueness, rareness, interesting back-story -- nothing to compel one's interest.

perhaps this is why i am attracted to the smaller, artisanal brands that fly well under the radar of the mass-affluent demographic. their products are produced in quite small quantities. you get to interact with the owner / designer / builder... its fun to learn about, to (often times) uniquely configure, and then to own this type gear. there is something special about it -- i did not just walk in and plunk down a large sum for a "commodity product". rather, i got a piece of art with a soul that also plays music.

so, perhaps, what i am trying to articulate is that in the absence of SQ as a consideration, price is not something that influences my individual "consumer perception" ...it is the intangible qualities of a brand that make it unique and generate that pride-of-ownership feeling that would be my metric for deciding tier.

in any event, this thread would make a great case study at business schools.
 
Fair point. The counter argument to the smaller, artisan brands is resale. Many in the audio community are already thinking about selling their amp before they’ve even bought it!

Think of a consumer who buys a pair of Magico M6’s, is he thinking “oh that Jolida amp should be good”? Probably not. He’s thinking Soulution, Boulder, CH, Gryphon, etc. Again, tier 1 electronics with a tier 1 speaker.

Maybe a better analogy is cars. If we are talking tier 1 luxury cars, would we be thinking Mercedes Benz, Bentley, Jaguar, etc or Hyundai? That new Genesis G90 is the bomb, but would you consider Hyundai tier 1? Haven’t they sound Genesis off into it’s own brand like Toyota (Lexus) and Honda (Acura) and Nissan (infinity)?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Really interesting list and discussion. Thanks, Mike, for the starting the discussion.

Of the amps listed in tier 1, the ones I've heard (since I haven't been to an audiophile show since 2019) and liked the most would be MBL, DartZeel, and Wavac. Of these three, the one I have most direct experience with is Wavac, and those were simply amazing. Likely the best-sounding amps I've ever heard. Very lifelike and engaging, and in a really good way.

Wondering, Mike, where you'd put Ayon. I know Caelin has (if memory serves) an Ayon Crossfire SET, and he really, really likes that amp with his DeVores, IIRC.

I'm with a number of the folks that find CH Precision and Soulution to be on the dry side. Guess I'm a tube guy at heart! Hence my love for the Wavacs.
 
Really interesting list and discussion. Thanks, Mike, for the starting the discussion.

Of the amps listed in tier 1, the ones I've heard (since I haven't been to an audiophile show since 2019) and liked the most would be MBL, DartZeel, and Wavac. Of these three, the one I have most direct experience with is Wavac, and those were simply amazing. Likely the best-sounding amps I've ever heard. Very lifelike and engaging, and in a really good way.

Wondering, Mike, where you'd put Ayon. I know Caelin has (if memory serves) an Ayon Crossfire SET, and he really, really likes that amp with his DeVores, IIRC.

I'm with a number of the folks that find CH Precision and Soulution to be on the dry side. Guess I'm a tube guy at heart! Hence my love for the Wavacs.

Ayon is one of those brands that makes a good product, but not a lot of dealers carry it likely due to the distributor. I personally don’t have a lot of experience with it, other than shows (usually with Legacy speakers). What’s your thoughts? Tier 2?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Fair point. The counter argument to the smaller, artisan brands is resale. Many in the audio community are already thinking about selling their amp before they’ve even bought it!

Think of a consumer who buys a pair of Magico M6’s, is he thinking “oh that Jolida amp should be good”? Probably not. He’s thinking Soulution, Boulder, CH, Gryphon, etc. Again, tier 1 electronics with a tier 1 speaker.

Maybe a better analogy is cars. If we are talking tier 1 luxury cars, would we be thinking Mercedes Benz, Bentley, Jaguar, etc or Hyundai? That new Genesis G90 is the bomb, but would you consider Hyundai tier 1? Haven’t they sound Genesis off into it’s own brand like Toyota (Lexus) and Honda (Acura) and Nissan (infinity)?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

lmao!! ...the genesis / hyundai would NOT satisfy the intangible test. i would, however, offer tesla as a tier-1 on intangibles, model 3 included.

in the event i upgrade speakers to the level of a magico m6, then i am thinking the likes of thomas mayer, ares cerat and audio tekne. every bit as expensive as the usual suspects but (not being able to consider SQ) the intangibles make the sale for me.
 
Fair point. The counter argument to the smaller, artisan brands is resale. Many in the audio community are already thinking about selling their amp before they’ve even bought it!

Think of a consumer who buys a pair of Magico M6’s, is he thinking “oh that Jolida amp should be good”? Probably not. He’s thinking Soulution, Boulder, CH, Gryphon, etc. Again, tier 1 electronics with a tier 1 speaker.

Maybe a better analogy is cars. If we are talking tier 1 luxury cars, would we be thinking Mercedes Benz, Bentley, Jaguar, etc or Hyundai? That new Genesis G90 is the bomb, but would you consider Hyundai tier 1? Haven’t they sound Genesis off into it’s own brand like Toyota (Lexus) and Honda (Acura) and Nissan (infinity)?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I don't think Genesis would ever go tier 1 because of perception and snobbery. They are probably perceived more tier 3 flirting with tier 2 yet the reality is, I believe, they would be much closer to tier 1 for most casual enthusiasts in A-B testing. But for cars aficionados, looking for 0-60 in 3.4 seconds in everything, Genesis would probably always be a pimped Hyundai regardless of the massive jump in their latest lines...

What's your perception of Lexus? Tier 2 still or have they achieve tier 1 after all those years?
 
I would rate Accuphase as a tier 1 brand also, can really appreciate how that company works, evolution instead of revolution, outstanding quality and feel, and very faithfull to importers, dealers and customers, tier 3 is really to low IMHO offcourse.
 
I don't think Genesis would ever go tier 1 because of perception and snobbery. They are probably perceived more tier 3 flirting with tier 2 yet the reality is, I believe, they would be much closer to tier 1 for most casual enthusiasts in A-B testing. But for cars aficionados, looking for 0-60 in 3.4 seconds in everything, Genesis would probably always be a pimped Hyundai regardless of the massive jump in their latest lines...

What's your perception of Lexus? Tier 2 still or have they achieve tier 1 after all those years?

Great point. That’s what I’m getting at. Perception. The price is there (sort of), but the perception?

For me? Lexus is Tier 2.
 
I would rate Accuphase as a tier 1 brand also, can really appreciate how that company works, evolution instead of revolution, outstanding quality and feel, and very faithfull to importers, dealers and customers, tier 3 is really to low IMHO offcourse.

I love Accuphase. Would sure love some 250’s! But in Japan, the brand is considered like McIntosh here. It has the price, but what’s the general perception? Tier 2?
 
Ayon is one of those brands that makes a good product, but not a lot of dealers carry it likely due to the distributor. I personally don’t have a lot of experience with it, other than shows (usually with Legacy speakers). What’s your thoughts? Tier 2?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Mike
Caelin Gabriel in this thread:
https://www.audioshark.org/general-...component-you-just-love-18463.html#post305822
Seemed to rate the Ayon Crossfire much higher than tier2.
 
I don't think Genesis would ever go tier 1 because of perception and snobbery. They are probably perceived more tier 3 flirting with tier 2 yet the reality is, I believe, they would be much closer to tier 1 for most casual enthusiasts in A-B testing. But for cars aficionados, looking for 0-60 in 3.4 seconds in everything, Genesis would probably always be a pimped Hyundai regardless of the massive jump in their latest lines...

What's your perception of Lexus? Tier 2 still or have they achieve tier 1 after all those years?

Lexus and Infinity have Tier1 vehicles , Hyundai with Genesis closer but not yet solid tier 2 with Genesis ..
 
I love Accuphase. Would sure love some 250’s! But in Japan, the brand is considered like McIntosh here. It has the price, but what’s the general perception? Tier 2?

Accuphase is well built for decades , Tier 2 because of a lack of familiarity with their new stuff, but i can see Tier1 is a possibility. The recent comments onMcIntosh lead me to believe their older stuff was better sounding ..
 
Also missing are Ypsilon, Robert Koda and Zanden. I would rank Ypsilon above Lamm All-day-long, same for Zanden. I still think Rowland belongs in tier 1, who else had multi-axis CNC machines grinding out chassis' when Jeff thought of doing it back in the day...still waiting. :)
 
Lexus and Infinity have Tier1 vehicles , Hyundai with Genesis closer but not yet solid tier 2 with Genesis ..


I agree with you yet I don't think neither Lexus or Infiniti will ever achieve Tier 1 status... They are still perceived Tier 2 for some reason...
 
Back
Top