The (good) old CD player

[Randy Myers]

Agreed!

 

[Steve]

No doubt streaming offers the best of instant gratification. So is a music streamer a sound strategy for focus, allowing one to shift their mind into a state of flow?

Or does it tempt one into a state of impulsive distraction?

I tend to agree with a.wayne that CD players sound better for playing redbook.

 

[Rhapsody]

No fair, if you are using your Aurender with a dongle to a "Logos" variant! LoL

Norman, how are you? Well sometimes I'm doing that, but I was referring to any of the Aurenders>Vitus SCD-025DAC>Vitus SM102 pre> Vitus SM102 monos>Speakers

 

[Rhapsody]

No doubt streaming offers the best of instant gratification. So is a music streamer a sound strategy for focus, allowing one to shift their mind into a state of flow?

Or does it tempt one into a state of impulsive distraction?

I tend to agree with a.wayne that CD players sound better for playing redbook.

Not saying that cdp's don't "sound better", but what if the streaming sounds SO GOOD that you don't care if something (cd, vinyl, R2R) "sounds better" and you enjoy the listening experience more with Tidal streaming? And you have most anything on the planet that you want to listen to at your fingertips?

Again, to each his own and unless someone was in the exact same room with you comparing and even then everything is just "opinions" anyway....there is no "better" or "worse", just opinions and maybe or maybe not those "opinions" jive with your personal preferences.

 

[Mike]

Bob - how is that Vitus SACD player? How does it compare to your DAC's on hand?

 

[Rhapsody]

World class in my opinion. A LOT of body to the sound, very musical, dimensional with high resolution. Even the RD100 the model below the SCD025 blew me away, that is why I decided to go Vitus for my digital.

 

[Steve]

All mediums have their place and each have their particular attributes. I do have source preferences but don't have a particular favourite because all the sources I use have their inherent downsides also. I will not readily retire CDs and SACDs just like I will continue to keep vintage equipment and legacy formats in commission. Holding onto the past is just as important as embracing the future. (Indeed difficult for me to be musically and generationally unbiased though! Eg. Lyrics of today compared to lyrics of decades past.)

I'm not currently Tidal ready for my main system but will be very soon. There is no argument against the benefits of the lifestyle convenience it offers as a source.

 

[wklie]

I tend to agree with a.wayne that CD players sound better for playing redbook.

While there are many excellent CD players, as with other pieces of equipment, their prices need to be taken into account. From an engineering perspective, it should be less costly (hardware wise, exclude software) to build a network player with the same level of sound quality than a CD player for playing redbook CD or rip (not Tidal), because of the costs associated with the CD mechanism and the additional means to reduce the vibration, noise and jitter (e.g. reclock) induced from it.

Therefore, assuming the same audio circuit design, I'd guess that a network player should either sound better or be less expensive than a CD player from the same manufacturer. I hope that some day we can see a sound quality comparison between Esoteric K-05X and N-05 to see if my theory can be proven or not.

 

[wklie]

While both audiophiles initially marvelled at the convenience and high resolution capabilities of the devices both ended up retaining their CD players [Vitus SCD-025 and Esoteric K-01 respectively] because reproduction of their CD collections was of a higher standard via their CD players.

SCB-025 seems to be priced at EUR19000, which is roughly double of Lumin S1. Outside of same manufacturer and/or same audio design, I think it may be better to compare in the same price class.

As for K-01 - see this report comparing against N-05 USB input:
http://www.audioshark.org/showthread.php?t=10002&p=173556&viewfull=1#post173556

 

[Rhapsody]

I absolutely agree with your logic Peter, a key expense of a CD player is the mechanical transport mechanism with the best products from the likes of Esoteric being costly. Assuming a similar audio design / DAC a network player should sound better or be less expensive than a CD player.

In general Audiophiles strive to obtain the best sound they can from their systems. Recently one of my friends went down the Aurender path (flagship W20) and another down the Lumin path (believe it was the S1 but I’m not sure). While both audiophiles initially marvelled at the convenience and high resolution capabilities of the devices both ended up retaining their CD players [Vitus SCD-025 and Esoteric K-01X respectively] because reproduction of their CD collections was of a higher standard via their CD players.

Why this was their experience neither they nor I are sure. Is something lost in ripping a CD to a lossless audio format? Is jitter the limitation compared to the results obtained with a high-end CD transport? Is it reasonable to expect a jitter free, noise free, great sound from a system that's comprised of computers, software, hard drives spinning, multiple power supplies, routers, regenerators, switches – all with their power supplies and noise – CAT 5/6 ethernet cables, multiple boxes, USB cables, etc? Are we exchanging convenience for complexity + unwanted noise? I don’t have the answers but the above experience may indicate that whilst reference music servers and streamers are less expensive then reference CD players – they don’t sound better for Red Book – yet.

And that's why I say it's a personal choice. Some people want to listen to their music because it "sounds better", others (me for example) want to listen to music that they love for the musical involvement sake and that comes with being able to listen to music that I've loved over the years but have forgotten about and would never ever listen to if I had to depend on me first of all remembering the artists and tracks and then finding the cd's and purchasing them.

I've been listening to Tidal through Aurender for almost 2 years now and the initial excitement has definitely not worn off. The love of finding so much music that I never would have listened to ask grown exponentially.

You would have to hear my Tidal/Aurender setup to realize how good it sounds to understand. I have great sounding Vinyl and R2R that if you are talking about "sounds better" blows my cdp's away. But when I am listening to Tidal/Aurender I never ever feel that I need to listen to cd's/vinyl or R2R to enjoy and become emotionally involved with the music.....which for me is what matters.

Just like anything else in life, it comes down to personal preferences, what might be nirvana (cd's sounding better than streaming) to MANY, might not mean anything to someone else that prefers GREAT SOUND with millions of tracks at their fingertips (Streaming Tidal). Better to someone else does not have much to do with what is better to me and visa versa. Any conclusions that something is better is just someone's opinion, nothing more and nothing less

 

[wisnon]

Norman, how are you? Well sometimes I'm doing that, but I was referring to any of the Aurenders>Vitus SCD-025DAC>Vitus SM102 pre> Vitus SM102 monos>Speakers

All is well Bob.

Didnt get to the US this Summer, hence no chance to look you up.

You have so much quality gear lying around that you are spoilt for choice.

 

[Rhapsody]

All is well Bob.

Didnt get to the US this Summer, hence no chance to look you up.

You have so much quality gear lying around that you are spoilt for choice.

Looking forward to a visit from you when you make your next jump across the pond!

I do have a lot of great toys at this point....but so does almost everyone on this forum!!!

 

[bzr]

And that's why I say it's a personal choice. .........
.......... Any conclusions that something is better is just someone's opinion, nothing more and nothing less

That right there! Good shot Bob!

 

[Rhapsody]

That right there! Good shot Bob!

Hey Kev, it just bugs me talking about what's better than this or better than that. The only thing that is meaningful is if it is better for you. Although that might not be better to someone else.

People should say it's better for me in my system, then that makes sense. Anything else, especially "a friend said" or "someone else did this or that" is nothing more than "mental gymnastics", which can be fun of course, but it's nothing more than that.

 

[jdandy]

Hey Kev, it just bugs me talking about what's better than this or better than that. The only thing that is meaningful is if it is better for you. Although that might not be better to someone else.

People should say it's better for me in my system, then that makes sense. Anything else, especially "a friend said" or "someone else did this or that" is nothing more than "mental gymnastics", which can be fun of course, but it's nothing more than that.

So true. Good post.

 

[jdandy]

Mike.......I use all of my sources for playback. The servers get their play time in both systems but so do the K-03 transports, the turntables, the FM tuners, and the Sonos connect streamers. I use all the sources I own. Granted, the servers are great when you wish to bounce around from disc to disc, artist to artisit, song to song, resolution to resolution from the comfort of your sweet spot seat. Nothing beats that convenience. Still, I also get complete listening enjoyment from placing a CD in the transport tray of either K-03 and pressing play. On my way to the kitchen in the morning to brew some fresh ground Italian Roast coffee beans I stop along the way just long enough to place one of many solo piano CD's into the Esoteric. I love solo piano in the mornings. I am not concerned about jumping from track to track or to another disc, only that my home has the wonderful sound of piano while I enjoy my morning coffee and pastry.

For me, there will always be CD/SACD players in my systems. My 1500+ discs in racks are all begging to be spun. I enjoy the activity of selecting a disc, placing it in the player and walking away to do whatever while the music plays. I don't always want to sit with an iPad or cellphone in my hand navigating a music library. Many times I simply want music to be playing without any other distractions. This is not to say I don't enjoy the server experience, the convenience, and the high-res playback capabilities, but I also enjoy my other playback choices as well. For me, CD/SACD players are an essential part of a well built sound system.

 

[Mike]

Thanks Dan. I think the point of my post was missed. I was simply thinking the other day as I popped a CD in my player (first time in a year) and noticed the ease to the sound and quiet backgrounds.

My point was, have we ever stopped to think about what "computer audio" really means? Did we completely miss the KISS principle when it comes to digital? With computer audio, we have computers, software, hard drives, power supply for the computer, NAS, it's power supply, routers, it's power supply, switches, their power supply, miles of Ethernet cables, wifi, USB cables, regens, and so much more.

I love the convenience and the ability to build huge play lists (can't do that with a CD) or stream Tidal or enjoy Roon.

Was just pondering...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jdandy]

Mike.......Computer audio, especially NAS based servers, external rippers, file manipulation software, wireless connectivity, Ethernet connectivity, file transfer and the various complexities don't lend themselves to ease of use for the average music aficionado. We actually represent a minutely tiny segment of listeners committed to that level of involvement before the music starts to play. You have to be committed to the whole ball of wax, so to speak, to achieve the best performance and control. As for the quality of playback, I have noticed the scales tipped in both directions. That is I have noticed some CD's and SACD's sound spectacular on the K-03 but not quite the same level of engagement when played from a server, and the same in the opposite with some recording seeming to benefit from hard drive playback over transport playback. I know that I am rarely disappointed with playback from my transports.

What I have been working to achieve, and have achieved with varying degrees of success, is to develop and hold onto a state of mind that leaves the complexities of a system's equipment functions and complications out of the listening equation. I simply wish to hear my choice of music on the assembled systems without the nagging aggravation of dwelling on the system rather than the musical performance. I still remember the days when I was able to enjoy music from a 1-1/2" speaker in 9-volt transistor mono pocket radio with zero energy spent on where the music was coming from. I was listening to the music not the little radio. I want to be able to embrace that state of mind at will every time I drop the stylus or press the physical or virtual play button. I have actually grown tired of worrying about the systems. I just want to enjoy the music.

 

[BlueFox]

This whole what sounds better, the CD player or the server, is mostly which has the better DAC, and analog output stage. The cables used on each piece of gear will also affect the sound one way or the other to some degree. It is not a simple A/B comparison.

 

[bzr]

Not sure if that was a off the cuff ‘cheap shot’ (2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Amendment ) aimed at me Bob? Hopefully not. Forums are about people, experiences, opinions and yes the occasional act of “mental gymnastics”. I’ve shared an experience – if you read carefully – of a couple of folks that were disappointed going down the server / streamer pathway and resolved that for Red Book they achieved better quality spinning a disc in their CDP’s. That experience sits comfortably with my own observations when ripped CD’s are replayed via various hardware and software to the DAC on my K-03 player. I’ve suggested that one possible conclusion of these experiences may be whilst reference music servers and streamers are less expensive then reference CD players – they don’t sound better for Red Book – yet. Why would that bug you?

I’ve often pondered the question that Mike raised at the outset, have we ever stopped to think about what "computer audio" really means? Did we completely miss the KISS principle when it comes to digital? What reasons might exist to explain why Mike, myself and others mentioned above noticed music playing with greater ease and quieter backgrounds via a transport? Do you have any considered thoughts on that?

Ralph, every single person is guilty of what Bob mentioned on this forum, "but", some more than others. Are they wrong in their train of thought, not necessarily. For the likes of the company that hangs out in the deep waters here though, there is a price of entry & it isn't cheap to have that experience & claim to a well versed & knowledgeable reference to a like sound of topic. We have all been in the spot of similarity to said experience of the hot topic, sometimes, it is real easy to refer to someone that has golden hairs in their ears that we all know of at least one of!!!

Mike, I have so many times pondered the day I gave away my Marantz CD17 KI Series CD to a friend, I wish I had of gone up the chain too in Kens creations....