Please don't give up on the little-guys

I missed the deleted thread but I can use my imagination.
My view is that, internet/forum complains should only be used after all face to face negotiations attempts have failed.
I remember that not long ago, here in a Chinese audio forum, a guy was complaining about his 3 month old KEF(no "little guy" by all means) reference speaker (203/2 as far as I recall and some paint loss issue). He did this only after countless fire exchange with the dealer he bought the speakers from and got really desperate.
The post very quickly caught the attention and one of the top KEF directors flew all the way from Hong kong to the guys's city for a home visit.
Before any deal was even discussed, a brand new wireless KEF headphone was immediatly passed over as a "sorry no matter what" gift.
No idea what kind of deal was made eventually, but the guy for sure was made happy.
 
I have a hard time relating to anyone spending $50K on cables.

Having seen pictures of Ian’s listening room, IMO, spending the$50K on a dedicated room would make a much bigger improvement.
 
Not in this case. His reviews can wax lyrical, BUT this article is crystal clear and to the point. Small startups need to conduct their due diligence.
 
Some think that a small manufacturer is a financial risk if something goes wrong and because of poorer resale. However, that is only one way of looking at costs. With the better known, relatively bigger companies, one ends up paying much more than the manufacturing costs for advertising and distribution, nothing to do with SQ, and the quality for the $ amount can be much lower.

Look at some dacs and cables that cost almost a 100k. A lot of that markup is for branding, distribution and advertising costs, nothing to do with higher manufacturing costs or superior SQ.

Of the products I like, only the Avantgarde Trios with bass horns come from a well-known company. Western Electric replica horns, Analysis Audio planars, Tune Audio Anima, are all small one man manufacturers. Could never take to big speakers like Wilsons, Focal, etc. In dacs, the only one I like is Lampi. I just don't like any digital otherwise. In amps, NAT Audio from Serbia. Jadis and Spectral are two amps I like which are better known. Shun Mook is a one man genius.

I love it when the designer's fingerprints are over the product. Whether while eating sushi, or buying hifi, best to avoid mass produced stuff
 
I find Srajan 'flowery', 'ornate' and 'long winded'. He has a 'gift' for over elaborate metaphors and a penchant for unusual words and complex constructions....

His Dead in the Water '6moons industry features' could have reasonably been communicated in two paragraphs.


Further, I agree with Jock - I also think most people would be shocked how small even the larger "high end" companies are.

Man you guys are like HP engineers.

The joke that made the rounds when I was there was that if HP were to market Sushi, they would produce a brochure that said: COLD-DEAD-FISH! LoL
 
Sort of back on track here....

Sometimes the little guy gets screwed over by a 3rd part component used in an otherwise great pc of gear.

Case in point - Sound Valves / Sound Values bought out what was left of Dynaco and built on that. I first purchased the SS Pre Amp they created but it was dry and boring. After hearing from many people how well a Tube Pre with SS Amp combo was, I sent the SS Pre back and purchased the VTP 101i at the introductory pricing of $599 vs regular $899 to pair first with an older Hafler 9180 and then my Odyssey Stratos Plus. For that money, the Pre was a bargain and included a separate Phono section with it's own set of tubes aside from the line stages. I loved it and it performed well.

Then the trouble hit. The Power Supply failed. I spoke to the owner, John Peterson and sent it in for warranty repair. He replaced the PS and a few other things and it worked like a charm again until the replaced PS again died. It was now out of warranty but John again replaced the PS for me. I then sold the unit after falling into my current VAC pre (and whole setup). I read where others had the same issues with the PS and not long after that, Sound Valves / Sound Values was out of business.

So a simple lot of bad power supplies from a 3rd party vendor partly (or mostly) put a manufacturer of decent gear out of business. Due diligence is one thing, but getting an unknown batch of PSs that will eventually fail is pretty hard to detect when sourcing parts for the build.

When I did get my VAC and Counterpoint amp, I took them to RHB Soundezign for some repairs and what do you think they had opened up on the bench? A real nice VTP 101i with a failed Power Supply.

It's a real shame that all happened because the gear was affordable and decent for what it costs. It allowed real entry level performance for those not ready to drop large amounts of cash on tube gear without going Chi-Fi, which wasn't as big an option as it is today.
 
The great fear I think most of us have in dealing with a small company, especially one where we have to send a large sum of money in advance (to a foreign country) is that what happens if the transaction goes bad. Obviously, one way to ameliorate that fear is not pay in advance. However, this then turns the problem around to be one for the company, not knowing you as a customer. Paying some intermediary, like a credit card company, increases the transaction costs, but shifts much of the risk to the intermediary.

We have to remember that in hi end audio, almost everyone is small. When you call the company to ask about a product, you are very typically talking with the owner/inventor directly. You do not get a call center person working from a script. Almost all the so called big boys are still pretty small, and almost all of them started as one or a few people. BTW, that is also true of most all high end retailers and distributors. For scale, think about a business that has annual sales of $10M a year, under size limit of the US Small Business Administration classification for most small businesses. If they are selling their DAC, for example, for $5,000 wholesale (close to $10K retail), then they would have to have annual sales of 2000 units a year, or about one for every working hour.

However, if you are buying, there is a big difference in the chain (and as Bonzo says, this is often, but not always, reflected in the price to the consumer). For the larger companies, particularly selling in foreign countries, there is typically a distributor, and then a retailer. For a medium sized company, the manufacturer may go directly to a retailer, usually a limited number with whom they have to establish a personal relationship. Then the really small companies will sell direct. (There are a few medium that do that also). There are definitely pros and cons for the manufacturer. The retailer does the sales and manages payments from the customers as well as refunds, and also does a lot of the marketing/advertising and hand holding for customers, and absorbs much of the risk. The distributor also provides marketing to the retailer, with which he often has a long time relationship, and also provides a question/answer expertise for the retailer and customer, particularly in a worldwide market, where language and time zones are issues, and also absorbs some risk.

Obviously, if one is starting out, a distributor or retailer may not want to take you on, particularly if you have not had any track record with previous products or some very favorable press or buzz on the internet. If you become successful, particularly, if you are in a expansion mode, hiring new staff, increasing the size of your manufacturing facility, then you won't have the time to do a lot of marketing, sales, and customer service, or if you hire internal staff to do that, they can become a significant overhead for your operation. Some manufacturers choose to stay small, sacrificing potential profits for better control of their products. But, I think, that is a very small number.

Larry

PS. Although an academic for most of my life, I started a non-profit educational operating foundation toward the end of my career and ran it for 10 years until I retired, eight years ago. We started with one person, me, and I retired, having 135 full staff and annual revenues in the mid $30M. So I went through all the stages and many of the tribulations that most of these companies are going through. Fortunately my foundation is still going strong.:)
 
One man bands have good points and bad. Bigger is not always safer look how close Ayre came to losing Charles Hansen can Ayre be the same without him and Burmester just lost Deiter will it be as good from now on who knows .

I got burned badly by a one man show lucky for me I went thru my dealer he took a big hit the company would not return the money or fix the problem. The dealer found me a better TT
 
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