Pass Labs x250.8 or x350.8

You will love it!

Salon 2 is on a whole different level. Terrific tweeter. Loves power.

But is Salon 3 around the corner?


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tarasman said:
I pulled the trigger on the x350.8, but I will keep Rowland in mind in the future.

What do you find are the biggest differences between the f208 and the salon2? I assume there are some areas that it was a bigger upgrade than others.

I'm reserving final judgement on the F208 until I get the big amp driving them.
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Congrats, great choice! You will absolutely love the Pass sound.


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tarasman said:
I pulled the trigger on the x350.8, but I will keep Rowland in mind in the future.
Click to expand...

Great choice! I thought I was getting a x350.8 for the longest time until I went side way and got a Diablo 300 instead (also, sold my KX-R).
 
Do you have the original F208 or the more expensive one that came out not so long ago with brillium? I haven't heard the new one. Hard to put the differences between 208 and Salon in words, it's like everything you like about your speaker but on a higher degree. The bass of the Salon will be much more defined.
 
The original F208. I'm not sure anyone has taken delivery of the new F228Be. Honestly, I think they are WAY overpricing the F228be. The cabinet is good, but not great. A cheap, lightweight, chinese MDF enclosure with a plastic base doesn't belong on a $10K speaker IMO. The spikes don't even belong on Kmart speakers, let alone something that is 5 figures in price. It's incredibly lame that they just decided to plop in some different drivers (that cost what, $100 per pair MAX) and call it a $10k speaker. I'd understand a $7k price point. I have a feeling that they got overconfident and a little greedy (though I could be wrong). I'm sincerely hoping that the Magico A3 destroys everything from $8,000 to $16,000, including the Studio II. From what I've read, it sounds like the owner of Magico has a "go big or go home" attitude about this A3. I can't wait for the debut. It could be huge for anyone who buys new or used speakers from $4k to $10k.

So that's what I'm HOPING happens, but I guess we wait and see. Honestly, if the A3 and F228Be sounded identical, who wouldn't want the much higher end, much heavier enclosure of the A3, just from a value perspective?
 
tarasman said:
The original F208. I'm not sure anyone has taken delivery of the new F228Be. Honestly, I think they are WAY overpricing the F228be. The cabinet is good, but not great. A cheap, lightweight, chinese MDF enclosure with a plastic base doesn't belong on a $10K speaker IMO. The spikes don't even belong on Kmart speakers, let alone something that is 5 figures in price. It's incredibly lame that they just decided to plop in some different drivers (that cost what, $100 per pair MAX) and call it a $10k speaker. I'd understand a $7k price point. I have a feeling that they got overconfident and a little greedy (though I could be wrong). I'm sincerely hoping that the Magico A3 destroys everything from $8,000 to $16,000, including the Studio II. From what I've read, it sounds like the owner of Magico has a "go big or go home" attitude about this A3. I can't wait for the debut. It could be huge for anyone who buys new or used speakers from $4k to $10k.

So that's what I'm HOPING happens, but I guess we wait and see. Honestly, if the A3 and F228Be sounded identical, who wouldn't want the much higher end, much heavier enclosure of the A3, just from a value perspective?
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I expect the A3 to be the $10-15k speaker to beat in its class. Looking forward to getting my pairs next month.
 
Mr Peabody said:
Do you have the original F208 or the more expensive one that came out not so long ago with brillium? I haven't heard the new one. Hard to put the differences between 208 and Salon in words, it's like everything you like about your speaker but on a higher degree. The bass of the Salon will be much more defined.
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and if your hearing is capable (young enough) the treble of the Studio / Salon is to die for.

tarasman said:
I'm sincerely hoping that the Magico A3 destroys everything from $8,000 to $16,000, including the Studio II.
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don't hold your breath, could it 'best' it , yes perhaps, but using the word 'destroy' is pure audiophile BS !
 
My high range hearing has rolled off quite a lot. I can't really hear 12khz anymore :(

We should all hope the A3 "destroys" everything else. To your point, it won't.
 
One of the things that the A3 will have over its competitors in that price range is the cabinet structure. Many in the sub-$10k range are MDF cabinets. The reduction in resonances will no doubt put the A3 in a different league. That being said, some may prefer the added resonances, others, I suspect may not. I’m guessing that was one of the things that stood out for Doug Schneider on his Focal Sopra 2 vs A3 listening session. Regardless, it should be fun to hear them.

“Eventually, more differences came to light, particularly when we played recordings with male or female vocals. It was with these vocals that I could hear slightly more detail and texture through the A3s than through the No2s. Furthermore, the vocalists and any accompanying instruments were a little more focused in space on the soundstage -- I could determine their placements more precisely. According to Alon, this superior image focus is the result of using aluminum for the cabinet, as opposed to MDF, which is why it’s also used for his S- and Q-series speakers (the M-series speakers use a combination of aluminum and carbon fiber).”

http://www.soundstageglobal.com/ind...mber-2017/739-magico-a3-loudspeaker-the-sound


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Coincidentally, since participating in this thread I ran across a Ben Shyman review for HTR who uses the 30.8 as a reference to drive Sopra standmount. Reviewing of the Bricasti M1se. And, a reviewer for Da go go uses the 30.8 as a reference, I forget which speakers as I wasn't familiar with them. I was reading his review of the DS Audio cartridge rig.

I see the 208 does well for Revel, probably due to the vast amount of good reviews that came out around it. I owned F52's when the 208 came out, I liked my F52's much better. I'm sure the lower price point helped the 208 as well. I know guys who have the 208 that like them really well too. One of those guys used to write for an online audio magazine. To me the F52 had much better bass definition, amongst other things.

That $10k price point will be a tough weight class. I was impressed with the new Dynaudio Contour series, one models was around $10k. I expect the A3 to be a game changer. The 208B may prove to be a bad decision.

I thought the Salon 2 at $22k was always a killer at that price range. I'd hear speakers costing much more I wouldn't like as much as the Salon. If there is a Salon 3 in the wings I hope it doesn't go the same direction as the 208, but I may be a minority in not being a fan.
 
tarasman said:
I pulled the trigger on the x350.8, but I will keep Rowland in mind in the future.

What do you find are the biggest differences between the f208 and the salon2? I assume there are some areas that it was a bigger upgrade than others.

I'm reserving final judgement on the F208 until I get the big amp driving them.
Click to expand...

Sorry I'm late to reply. You are going to love the 350.8. Has it arrived yet?

Regarding the F208 vs. Salon2, the differences aren't going to jump out and grab you from the start. The Salon2 is more detailed and smoother in the top end, though the 208 is very good here as well. The biggest difference in my system is the top end extension and spatial characteristics that the Salon2 brings to the table. They image extraordinarily well too. I actually got as good if not a little better bass definition with the 208's in my room, or to be more accurate, my room (22'X15'X8') provided a little better bass definition with the 208's.....I am a firm believer that we are hearing the room much more than the speaker in regards to bass response.



I gave the new F228 BE several listens at RMAF last fall and thought they were outstanding. Although they do recycle the F208 cabinet, other than that, they are a total redesign with all new drivers, new crossover, etc. People like to knock Revel for being made in China etc, but they likely have the most thorough and sophisticated design process of any manufacturer out there, and don't bring a product to the market unless it beats competing speakers at higher prices in their blind listening tests. The fact that they have not replaced the Salon2 after all these years is a testament to this. To put it in perspective, imagine that the current flagship Magico was still the M5 which was introduced in 2009. I'm not knocking Magico, and I'm sure they've made many improvements with their subsequent releases, but we are taking about companies with very different marketing philosophies.

Obviously I am a Revel fan, but I think a comparison between the F228BE and Magico A3 would be illuminating.
 
This is astonishing, but my $200 Yamaha AVR controls the woofers on my Revel F208s better than the x350.8. I replaced EVERYTHING in the system thinking it can't be true, but alas, that's where things stand. The F208 must need a higher damping factor or something. I mean there is MASSIVE power on tap, but the bass is not tuneful, and percussion sounds like woofers, not percussion.

If things can be this badly mismatched, I have to wonder how in the world do you design speakers or amps without knowing what people are going to pair up with your product?

For now I'll just hook my xa30.5 back up and bask in the glory of my system's midrange, which is terrific. If I want dynamics, I guess I'd lean towards different speakers, and then follow that up with an amp upgrade if necessary. At least, that's how I feel at the moment.
 
The 350.8 if brand new will need some break in time. and my Pass amp always sounded better after about an hour of use from being in stand-by. Of course, you have the 30.8 I'm not telling you anything you probably don't already know.

There's no way the Yamaha has more control than a Pass anything, I mean, really. I suspect the Pass amps both have more drive and making the 208 sound fuller in the bass. Remember in some post hear I think I mentioned I liked my F52's better than the newer 208, I too hear what you don't like in the bass, it's wooly to me. I believe the Yamaha is just not driving the 208 to produce that amount of bass like the Pass amps do. I read how Revel supposedly blind tested people to get to the 208, who those people were might be interesting. Regardless, I like some Revel speakers but if I was buying new the 208, or Performer 3 in general, would not be on my list. I owned the F52's when the P3 series came out, I was really disappointed, I expected something really impressive.

If you look back, I also predicted, in so many words, just what you experienced with the 350.8. Why no one else here defended the 30.8 and told you the truth I don't know. Pass would be crap to be bested by a receiver in any aspect of performance. I would personally sell the 208's and look for another speaker. The Studio 2 will exhibit much better bass more to your liking, if not wanted to jump up to the Salon. Or, wait for the Magico A3. Remember I mentioned a reviewer whose reference system was the 30.8 and Magico?
 
Well, you're welcome to drive 6.5 hours to my place. I'll put you in a (inexpensive) hotel for a night.

It's driving me crazy. There IS impact, but it feels very heavy handed, like my woofers weigh too much, or like someone plugged a box that's supposed to be open. It just doesn't sound like instruments in space. I thought my Pre could be a POS, so I drove the amp directly out of an Oppo 105. I tried shorter, more expensive XLR cables. I've run things in boundary mode and normal mode on the speakers. I've been desperate to figure this out because I can't afford to ship 150lb amps around the country.

To be fair, the new amp only has 60 hours, and Pass recommends 120 before critical listening.

Sadly, my sources aren't great right now. I have an Oppo 105 to play with, and my old Meridian 508.24. My Schiit Ygdrassil is out for repair, and it truly is a LOT better than these other pieces (not of Schiit).

Please note, my existing amp is an XA30.5, not the .8. The .8 has almost double the voltage at 40v.

As I said before, the only thing that makes sense to me is that the F208 was designed and tested with Levinson gear, which usually has a much higher damping factor, which equates to better woofer control (presumably at some other, possibly major, expense). Or maybe the skies will open up after the break-in period.
 
I had the speakers towed in pointing almost directly at my ears. Pointing them more straight into the room is helping lower the pressure and increasing the bass resolution some. I'll try to continue tuning the bass with positioning. Maybe the additional bass power is highlighting a room or speaker setup issue I just didn't have or notice before.
 
I have an X250 amp. I find the bass slow so I am not surprised that you don't like the bass compared to what you are use to. It took me a while to get comfortable with the bass after having a Parasound A21 with dampening greater than 1000. I actually find the slower bass more natural.

Try putting a sock in the port in your speakers to see if things tighten up and tone down a bit. If it does then you can buy a foam plug to use.
 
High damping factor can be achieved by using heavy does of negative feedback. I think Pass Lab amp would not adopt this approach. I am using Pass X250.8 driving may Magico S5. The bass is powerful yet with articulation and tonally rich.
 
tarasman said:
I had the speakers towed in pointing almost directly at my ears. Pointing them more straight into the room is helping lower the pressure and increasing the bass resolution some. I'll try to continue tuning the bass with positioning. Maybe the additional bass power is highlighting a room or speaker setup issue I just didn't have or notice before.
Click to expand...

How far are your speakers from the back wall?


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