Nord One Up Ncore NC500 amps, Class D ready for prime time .....
- Thread starter joeinid
- Start date
Jack
Active member
I'm with Joe, the STP-SE is a great match. If you find a tube preamp you like with a low enough gain that would be my first choice. It doesn't have to be extreme but you might be pushing it with gain numbers like with CJ preamps. My Modwright at 13 db is just about as high as I would try for, but my speakers are over 90 db. If you have low efficiency speakers you might have more choices.
VoicesInMyHead
New member
I was in the exact same position as you. My first thought was also regarding an integrated, as it seems Class D has come a long way, so has integrated amplifiers in my opinion. And for someone like me who has invested heavily in cables, adding a pre-amp in between with yet another cable makes it very costly. I wasn't even looking for a power-amp, I was looking for an integrated, but I decided to finally go the balanced and DAC/poweramp combo with volume control and add those options to my LampizatOr DAC instead. We'll see how it works, if not the backup plan is to try one of the passives, like the Hattor for example.
alto
New member
Or you could consider going straight from a Lumin player with built in dac using your iPad for volume control. Another option is the SotM dac/pre or Benchmark DA3.
What case and colour are you getting?
What case and colour are you getting?
tboooe
New member
That is a good idea to get a dac with a volume control. Unfortunately, I just bought one and volume control isnt available for it anyway. I guess I could control the volume via my playback software, HQ Player. I typically do not mess around too much with volume once I start listening so maybe I can this route and forget about a pre or integrated altogether.
I would get a SE case in silver.
I would get a SE case in silver.
boggit
New member
- Joined
- May 16, 2016
- Messages
- 84
I have just bought a Lumin D1 and its works a treat direct to the Nord. I've only had a hour with it but functionally works very well, the volume control is very precise.
One of my customers has also just bought the Benchmark DAC3 works well and has the advantage of an RCA in. They also sent him the power amp to try, he preferred the Nord. The dealer who sold me the Lumin bought some Nord's, he bought around a £3600 Gato Integrated for me to listen to, stunning looks but wooly compared to the Nord.
One of my customers has also just bought the Benchmark DAC3 works well and has the advantage of an RCA in. They also sent him the power amp to try, he preferred the Nord. The dealer who sold me the Lumin bought some Nord's, he bought around a £3600 Gato Integrated for me to listen to, stunning looks but wooly compared to the Nord.
Hi, new to this forum, but felt it was a good place to put my feedback on the Nord OneUp SE Stereo which I bought in Black a month ago, I had it with the SonicImagery 994's and Neotech internal speaker cable option.
So, a few notes on the system and history of things. The system I have it in has some remnants of Cyrus gear in it, the power amps I have used by them have stepped from the Power, to 2 SmartPowers in mono, to 2 APA7.5's, to 4 APA7.5's running bi-amped. These feeding Ruark Talisman 2's.
I have had the DacXP Signature being fed by a CD XT Signature, but the DacXP Signature was ditched for a Bryston BDA-2 Dac feeding and ATC SCA2 Preamp (the combination is much better in all respects for me, and it should be).
So, now the CD XT Signature feeds the Bryston BDA-2 Dac, feeds the ATC SCA2, feeds the Nord, feeding the Talisman 2's.
I don't particularly think it is worth talking about the SE case, it's nice and solid, smart and well finished. I will move on to what the amp sounds like, and also, having read much about the warming up (break in) of these amps I made sure I was ready to track any changes right from the off.
- continued next post -
So, a few notes on the system and history of things. The system I have it in has some remnants of Cyrus gear in it, the power amps I have used by them have stepped from the Power, to 2 SmartPowers in mono, to 2 APA7.5's, to 4 APA7.5's running bi-amped. These feeding Ruark Talisman 2's.
I have had the DacXP Signature being fed by a CD XT Signature, but the DacXP Signature was ditched for a Bryston BDA-2 Dac feeding and ATC SCA2 Preamp (the combination is much better in all respects for me, and it should be).
So, now the CD XT Signature feeds the Bryston BDA-2 Dac, feeds the ATC SCA2, feeds the Nord, feeding the Talisman 2's.
I don't particularly think it is worth talking about the SE case, it's nice and solid, smart and well finished. I will move on to what the amp sounds like, and also, having read much about the warming up (break in) of these amps I made sure I was ready to track any changes right from the off.
- continued next post -
Ok, a quick note about buying, I collected my Amp from Colin, and heard it connected to some of his IQ Speakers, which I believe were the ST2LK. He was feeding it from one of his Nord Preamps, from a Cambridge Audio CXN Streamer on the day.
I also heard the equivalent amp with Sparkos, and one of his new NC250MP Stereo Amps (so have opinions there too).
Initial impressions of his setup running my amp were of course in an unfamiliar room, using his speakers, so were more an impression of the system. So, what I thought was, whilst good, his system was not my cup of tea, and I mean the speakers. They sound big, deep etc, but the ribbon tweeters are not my cup of tea, so I found there was this big soundstage but the top end was a little harsh (as I knew this was my exact amp, I asked how long it had run, the answer was about 5 hours tops), so I was hoping this would not be a signature of the Nord amp, or that it would tone itself down a notch as it broke in. All guesses at that time.
So, the Sparkos comparison while there... I felt it was more natural immediately, warmer as is said by many, and it didn't highlight the ribbon tweeters slight harshness so much, the harshness I didn't like. But, I was left thinking I will not know until I use the amp in my system, referencing other amps I have had, what if any part of it was down to the Nord.
Here we better mention the NC250MP. Now, that, is going to be a winner for many people, it was seriously good in the limited time I had to listen there. So, at less than half the cost, the performance was seriously impressive, almost a sideways shift in sound not much a downwards one. Although, that's just quick impressions. So, if anyone's looking at those, I can say I was genuinely impressed.
--- continued next post ---
I also heard the equivalent amp with Sparkos, and one of his new NC250MP Stereo Amps (so have opinions there too).
Initial impressions of his setup running my amp were of course in an unfamiliar room, using his speakers, so were more an impression of the system. So, what I thought was, whilst good, his system was not my cup of tea, and I mean the speakers. They sound big, deep etc, but the ribbon tweeters are not my cup of tea, so I found there was this big soundstage but the top end was a little harsh (as I knew this was my exact amp, I asked how long it had run, the answer was about 5 hours tops), so I was hoping this would not be a signature of the Nord amp, or that it would tone itself down a notch as it broke in. All guesses at that time.
So, the Sparkos comparison while there... I felt it was more natural immediately, warmer as is said by many, and it didn't highlight the ribbon tweeters slight harshness so much, the harshness I didn't like. But, I was left thinking I will not know until I use the amp in my system, referencing other amps I have had, what if any part of it was down to the Nord.
Here we better mention the NC250MP. Now, that, is going to be a winner for many people, it was seriously good in the limited time I had to listen there. So, at less than half the cost, the performance was seriously impressive, almost a sideways shift in sound not much a downwards one. Although, that's just quick impressions. So, if anyone's looking at those, I can say I was genuinely impressed.
--- continued next post ---
Ok... let's move to the Nord, plugging it in in my own system, day one, immediate impressions.
Note at this point my ATC SCA2 Pre is a fully balanced design with XLR outs (and ins if wanted) there to be used, even my Bryston BDA-2 Dac has single ended and a proper designed balanced outs option as well as its single ended RCA outs.
So, I have been running my Dac to Pre single ended, with Alaqeia Interconnect from Missing Link which has been a winner in my systems and in friends systems over a good dozen other interconnects tried. The Pre to Power, I have some Mogami XLRs built up, and this is what I started with (I can get the cable model if anyone is interested)... more XLR cable choice experiments will follow.
Ok, so I ran my system 24/7 to burn this in, and made notes as I went along. They are quite extensive, so I will write them up and post them in due course. For now, lets just give impressions from first day, and now....
First impressions in my system were:
This is more trebley.
This is has less bass.
But, there is more sub bass when it is in the recording.
....so, I was left hoping the break-in stories are true, and was determined to be able to track any changes if I could as to where the improvements were.
5 hours later, still on that first day, I noted that things seemed marginally better, but vocals had an edge, slightly raspy quality, that I hoped would go. I also noted that I'd had no real "smiling" moments yet, but with some CDs I was hearing some details I hadn't heard before.
So, I will write up all the progress of the warm up in due course, but let's skip to two weeks later, 300 hours of use...
Well, does the Amp break in? In short, yes, no question. It is now very transparent. What I have feeding it is good enough to now prove if the recording is bad, soft, thin, poorly produced or mastered it will show it. Get something good playing and it is great. My reservations about what I had heard on the IQ's ribbon tweeters at Nord and initially on my speakers I felt, in regards to harshness, had gone. There's still a lot of treble extension though.
I am thinking of trying the Sparkos still at some point, out of curiosity maybe now, but not out of necessity.
All in all the amp is a winner, no doubt about that. What I do think may differ in me changing to a Nord to some others though, is my speakers are remarkably easy to drive. So, I would expect other people who are switching to a Nord from a less capable amp in respect of "easy to drive" would be benefitting from that aspect of the Nord's capabilities much much more than me, so it's easy to imagine how some people will find the amp a revelation from day one.
--- continued next post ---
Note at this point my ATC SCA2 Pre is a fully balanced design with XLR outs (and ins if wanted) there to be used, even my Bryston BDA-2 Dac has single ended and a proper designed balanced outs option as well as its single ended RCA outs.
So, I have been running my Dac to Pre single ended, with Alaqeia Interconnect from Missing Link which has been a winner in my systems and in friends systems over a good dozen other interconnects tried. The Pre to Power, I have some Mogami XLRs built up, and this is what I started with (I can get the cable model if anyone is interested)... more XLR cable choice experiments will follow.
Ok, so I ran my system 24/7 to burn this in, and made notes as I went along. They are quite extensive, so I will write them up and post them in due course. For now, lets just give impressions from first day, and now....
First impressions in my system were:
This is more trebley.
This is has less bass.
But, there is more sub bass when it is in the recording.
....so, I was left hoping the break-in stories are true, and was determined to be able to track any changes if I could as to where the improvements were.
5 hours later, still on that first day, I noted that things seemed marginally better, but vocals had an edge, slightly raspy quality, that I hoped would go. I also noted that I'd had no real "smiling" moments yet, but with some CDs I was hearing some details I hadn't heard before.
So, I will write up all the progress of the warm up in due course, but let's skip to two weeks later, 300 hours of use...
Well, does the Amp break in? In short, yes, no question. It is now very transparent. What I have feeding it is good enough to now prove if the recording is bad, soft, thin, poorly produced or mastered it will show it. Get something good playing and it is great. My reservations about what I had heard on the IQ's ribbon tweeters at Nord and initially on my speakers I felt, in regards to harshness, had gone. There's still a lot of treble extension though.
I am thinking of trying the Sparkos still at some point, out of curiosity maybe now, but not out of necessity.
All in all the amp is a winner, no doubt about that. What I do think may differ in me changing to a Nord to some others though, is my speakers are remarkably easy to drive. So, I would expect other people who are switching to a Nord from a less capable amp in respect of "easy to drive" would be benefitting from that aspect of the Nord's capabilities much much more than me, so it's easy to imagine how some people will find the amp a revelation from day one.
--- continued next post ---
Ok... I will return to write much more about the warming up / break in, which I made notes on every day, but the general feeling is one that it is the treble settling to be more refined and the soundstage depth which comes from that detail coming through the treble better are my main experiences. Bass, whilst it got more revealing was a lesser part of the break in, there was no increase in bass levels or extension over the break in for me.
What I will note is this though. When past the 300 hours, I took the opportunity to see whether the XLR cable choice from Pre to Power could make a difference or not. I know a lot of people don't believe choice of balanced XLR interconnects make a difference, and I tried to find out for myself. So, I tried an XLR version of the Alaqeia in place of the Mogami, and I tried Audience OHNO... well, the short answer is yes, a clear difference, the Alaqeia sounded more open at the top end, but didn't really have the control of that top end it opened, so if the choice was between that and the Mogami, either was compromised.
So, the Audience OHNO? Well, that was clearly better, voices were more realistic (very), detail was all there, treble detail was all controlled and extended, much better. In fact, any real instrument whether it be drums, cymbals, clicks of drumsticks counting in tracks, horns, strings, guitars everything sounded right, sounded real in recordings that were well done. I lived with this cable in place for a week and I became accustomed to the system sounding great. So, then, I thought, let's take it out, try the Mogami XLR again, try the Alaqeia XLR again, and see what I thought. "Instant downgrade" is what I thought.
I know some people are sceptical about XLR cables, but the difference is clear. I don't think it would be clear in all systems of course, but with the transparent nature of the Nord and in my system I can hear it clearly. Whether that particular Audience cable is the be all and end all, I don't know, but the experiment worked and the Mogami for instance sounds quite closed in in comparison and detail does not come through as well, with a slightly dulled top end and doesn't sound as open.
There is no doubt in higher end, more revealing speakers than I have the cables will even make more of a difference.
(A quick note, I am not knocking the RCA version of the Alaqeia, it is a great cable, and the Mogami (of which I tried two types with Neutriks, is the kind of thing you can build for £30 or buy for £50, the Audience OHNO is about £350).
So, I will be auditioning and trying other XLR cables, and will be trying another set from Dac to Pre once I can get more, but at the moment having Audience OHNO's from Pre to Power only leaves me the Alaqeia XLR or Mogami XLR to try in the Dac to Pre position and when I have done so, they are bettered by an RCA Alaqeia running in that position.
I don't know if any of this has helped anyone, I will post more information of my 14 days break-in notes, and can comment on anything else people wonder about with the amp.
Final note for now, the Nord OneUP SE Stereo is a great amp, and great value. It's transparent, lets the details through, and has great control of the speakers. I think a few people will soon be singing the praises of that NC250MP too, incredible sound for the price.
What I will note is this though. When past the 300 hours, I took the opportunity to see whether the XLR cable choice from Pre to Power could make a difference or not. I know a lot of people don't believe choice of balanced XLR interconnects make a difference, and I tried to find out for myself. So, I tried an XLR version of the Alaqeia in place of the Mogami, and I tried Audience OHNO... well, the short answer is yes, a clear difference, the Alaqeia sounded more open at the top end, but didn't really have the control of that top end it opened, so if the choice was between that and the Mogami, either was compromised.
So, the Audience OHNO? Well, that was clearly better, voices were more realistic (very), detail was all there, treble detail was all controlled and extended, much better. In fact, any real instrument whether it be drums, cymbals, clicks of drumsticks counting in tracks, horns, strings, guitars everything sounded right, sounded real in recordings that were well done. I lived with this cable in place for a week and I became accustomed to the system sounding great. So, then, I thought, let's take it out, try the Mogami XLR again, try the Alaqeia XLR again, and see what I thought. "Instant downgrade" is what I thought.
I know some people are sceptical about XLR cables, but the difference is clear. I don't think it would be clear in all systems of course, but with the transparent nature of the Nord and in my system I can hear it clearly. Whether that particular Audience cable is the be all and end all, I don't know, but the experiment worked and the Mogami for instance sounds quite closed in in comparison and detail does not come through as well, with a slightly dulled top end and doesn't sound as open.
There is no doubt in higher end, more revealing speakers than I have the cables will even make more of a difference.
(A quick note, I am not knocking the RCA version of the Alaqeia, it is a great cable, and the Mogami (of which I tried two types with Neutriks, is the kind of thing you can build for £30 or buy for £50, the Audience OHNO is about £350).
So, I will be auditioning and trying other XLR cables, and will be trying another set from Dac to Pre once I can get more, but at the moment having Audience OHNO's from Pre to Power only leaves me the Alaqeia XLR or Mogami XLR to try in the Dac to Pre position and when I have done so, they are bettered by an RCA Alaqeia running in that position.
I don't know if any of this has helped anyone, I will post more information of my 14 days break-in notes, and can comment on anything else people wonder about with the amp.
Final note for now, the Nord OneUP SE Stereo is a great amp, and great value. It's transparent, lets the details through, and has great control of the speakers. I think a few people will soon be singing the praises of that NC250MP too, incredible sound for the price.
No problem... will be back with more notes once I've written up my diaries of break-in (because I'd been looking for more details about the break in before I bought, but no one had seemed to say much more than "it got a lot better").
Also, I'll come back with opinions on the Sparkos once I've tried them in my system.
(Just trying to help provide another set of opinions that might help potential buyers like I was a while back)
Also, I'll come back with opinions on the Sparkos once I've tried them in my system.
(Just trying to help provide another set of opinions that might help potential buyers like I was a while back)
In fact, the following will interest some people, I combed through all of this thread to find absolutely all the comments people have made so far relating to warm-up/break-in and cut 'n' pasted them out, here they all are (divided up with ----'s):
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Try to remember that the amps themselves (amps + op amps) will start to come into their own around the 300 hour mark. 500 hours was the sweet spot for me and the only time they waver since then is if they've been powered off for more than 24 hours. I leave my Nord's powered on all the time so that they're settled with component warm up when I want to listen, but if starting from an extended off-period I give them at least 2-3 hours of power-on (since they are broken in already) before listening intently.
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After break in I found that a certain 'tightness' in the sound completely disappeared and the music flowed really well and a small edge disappeared making the sound smoother and instead of just being real they became spookily real. The number of times I said 'what the dam was that' increased. For me the changes were not dramatic but most welcome.
(NOTE: I think this might have been in reference to 300hrs?)
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I also found they needed about 30 mins to warm up fully after being off for a day or so. I leave them on permanently. I think I can handle 36w of heat even in the middle of summer.
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In fact, the 500 hour mark is when the amp really shows its capabilities in soundstage, bass definition and dimensionality. At the 1000 hour mark the bass really comes together in terms of pitch, definition, slam and air. Low-end detail and impact has improved immensely --the difference between dropping a mallet on a spongy surface and a hard solid surface where the impact is not only heard but has a more visceral punch!
-----
PS: it may be a help to new owners if you advise them that the amps do continue to "develop" beyond the 500 hour mark of continuous input through about 900 hours or so where patience is rewarded with exceptional sound quality at a price that defies convention. Truth be told, they really are quite good after a week of burn in!
-----
I think I mentioned it here already, but for the first 350-450 hours with the Nord's in my system, I ran them 24/7 powered up and about 12-18 hours per day playing music (streaming Tidal). To get to the 450 hour mark, it took me most of 4 weeks. Now, I just leave the Nord's powered on all the time and fire up the remainder of my system as needed.
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It appears Colin's customer is correct, I am still hearing improvement (particularly in the accuracy/detail and impact of the deep bass) now that my amps are reaching the 800 hour mark.
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For what it is worth EJ told me that class D's should have at least 500 hours to break in. More is even better. I have to agree. I have noticed the Wyred amp continuing to improve well pass 600-700 hours.
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It's got well over 250 hours on it now and is much better than it was out of the box especially the mids and highs.
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Thanks Jack. I am running PAD breakin CD to speed up the process whenever I can. Not sure how much it helps but it started to open up nicely after 4days.
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Amazing how these amps keep improving once they have more and more hours of playtime. Also, the SQ at very low listening levels is really something.
-----
-----
Try to remember that the amps themselves (amps + op amps) will start to come into their own around the 300 hour mark. 500 hours was the sweet spot for me and the only time they waver since then is if they've been powered off for more than 24 hours. I leave my Nord's powered on all the time so that they're settled with component warm up when I want to listen, but if starting from an extended off-period I give them at least 2-3 hours of power-on (since they are broken in already) before listening intently.
-----
After break in I found that a certain 'tightness' in the sound completely disappeared and the music flowed really well and a small edge disappeared making the sound smoother and instead of just being real they became spookily real. The number of times I said 'what the dam was that' increased. For me the changes were not dramatic but most welcome.
(NOTE: I think this might have been in reference to 300hrs?)
-----
I also found they needed about 30 mins to warm up fully after being off for a day or so. I leave them on permanently. I think I can handle 36w of heat even in the middle of summer.
-----
In fact, the 500 hour mark is when the amp really shows its capabilities in soundstage, bass definition and dimensionality. At the 1000 hour mark the bass really comes together in terms of pitch, definition, slam and air. Low-end detail and impact has improved immensely --the difference between dropping a mallet on a spongy surface and a hard solid surface where the impact is not only heard but has a more visceral punch!
-----
PS: it may be a help to new owners if you advise them that the amps do continue to "develop" beyond the 500 hour mark of continuous input through about 900 hours or so where patience is rewarded with exceptional sound quality at a price that defies convention. Truth be told, they really are quite good after a week of burn in!
-----
I think I mentioned it here already, but for the first 350-450 hours with the Nord's in my system, I ran them 24/7 powered up and about 12-18 hours per day playing music (streaming Tidal). To get to the 450 hour mark, it took me most of 4 weeks. Now, I just leave the Nord's powered on all the time and fire up the remainder of my system as needed.
-----
It appears Colin's customer is correct, I am still hearing improvement (particularly in the accuracy/detail and impact of the deep bass) now that my amps are reaching the 800 hour mark.
-----
For what it is worth EJ told me that class D's should have at least 500 hours to break in. More is even better. I have to agree. I have noticed the Wyred amp continuing to improve well pass 600-700 hours.
-----
It's got well over 250 hours on it now and is much better than it was out of the box especially the mids and highs.
-----
Thanks Jack. I am running PAD breakin CD to speed up the process whenever I can. Not sure how much it helps but it started to open up nicely after 4days.
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Amazing how these amps keep improving once they have more and more hours of playtime. Also, the SQ at very low listening levels is really something.
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Hey folks got a quick question. Are any of you in the U.S. ? I am curious to know how the switch mode power supply is working running on 110 volts.
Don't laugh people I can get into it later. And apparently it does make a difference.
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
Don't laugh people I can get into it later. And apparently it does make a difference.
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
I am using the Cary slp-05. The preamp has too much gain for the Nords (and may not be good fit) and hence I am using the single ended input instead of the balanced connection.
I think "fleshed out" is quite a good description of the Sparkos vs the 994 for the limited time I had to listen. I'll report back when I've actually experienced the change in my system too.