Network switch, FMC, cable upgrades worthwhile when router can't be co-located?

P

pmrogers

New member
Joined
Feb 19, 2020
Messages
1
Location
Austin, TX
Hi All,

Long-time lurker first post here, have very much appreciated all of the great discussion.

I'm looking to add high-quality internet streaming to my predominantly vinyl and spinning disc digital 2-channel system. After much skepticism I've come around on the potential SQ impact of quality network switches, FMC, cabling etc. I'd like to upgrade appropriately.

But my home is arranged such that the ISP router can only be located in an equipment room that is separated from the listening area by approximately 250 feet of cat5e in-wall cabling.

Given these limitations to the source network signal, is there any gain to be had from upgrading cabling, switches etc starting from the wall jack in my listening room?

If of interest, the primary options I'm considering are a dCS Bartok, MSB Premiere+Renderer, or an Innuos Zenith MK3 feeding either an ADI-2 DAC or the DAC built in to my McIntosh MCD500.

Thanks in advance for any input!
 
Data signals are 1's and 0's. It either works or doesn't.

I upgraded to a faster gaming router and switch just to offset any potential delays in streaming high res files from my NAS. But networking equipment isn't going to improve the sound.

I was a Cisco network certified administrator and designer in college. Just didn't follow that career path.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I’ve answered this question Lots of times as it comes up a lot. I’m not blaming you lol. You need a network extender which has WiFi capability to link to your router ie Ariels like your router. Then it has Ethernet sockets too. So you connect your streamer to it like it’s your router and you can put it with your HiFi. In that sense the extender works like a lan without all the cabling and it will be as fast as your internet if you get a half decent one. I use net gear nighthawk. Avoid switches if you can as they inject Hf noise from their cheap power supplies. Use a good quality short Ethernet cable from your extender and job done. I’ve reviewed the Bartok, Zenith albeit mk2 which I own and I have an Adi2 dac fs at the moment. Check my website out.
 
Phishphan said:
Data signals are 1's and 0's. It either works or doesn't.

I upgraded to a faster gaming router and switch just to offset any potential delays in streaming high res files from my NAS. But networking equipment isn't going to improve the sound.

I was a Cisco network certified administrator and designer in college. Just didn't follow that career path.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

it will because of the analogue effects of noise on the digital cable and if you use rubbish NAS drives with cheap switchers built for PCs and it degrades the sound. Not a lot or at all in some budget systems but a good amount in others.
 
Willco said:
How about bypassing all the cat 5 ethernet cable and use fmcs and fiber to connect from your router to listening room?

You might want to peruse this thread at What's Best Forum. It has some good information. https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/cable-modems.30094/
Click to expand...

very complex, the extender idea can be done cheaply and adequately for purpose. I’ve run all sorts of digital streaming DACs and servers off mine no probs. Don’t need messy power line, installing ducts and messing about. Original reason I got mine was to avoid drilling through walls.
 
Phishphan said:
Data signals are 1's and 0's. It either works or doesn't.

I upgraded to a faster gaming router and switch just to offset any potential delays in streaming high res files from my NAS. But networking equipment isn't going to improve the sound.

I was a Cisco network certified administrator and designer in college. Just didn't follow that career path.
Click to expand...

Not true. First, digital signals are transmitted as an analog signal. As the analog signal to digital signal is reconstructed by any gear in the path the rise and fall time can be skewed. This doesn’t affect data, but puts jitter into musical data.
 
BlueFox said:
Not true. First, digital signals are transmitted as an analog signal. As the analog signal to digital signal is reconstructed by any gear in the path the rise and fall time can be skewed. This doesn’t affect data, but puts jitter into musical data.
Click to expand...

Here is a technical explanation on why even if digital signals are being transmitted as analog in the end it does not really matter. Blog post also explains why jitter is really not a big issue when using modern digital equipment.


http://archimago.blogspot.com/2019/08/musings-demo-why-bits-are-bits-lets-not.html
 
BlueFox said:
Not true. First, digital signals are transmitted as an analog signal. As the analog signal to digital signal is reconstructed by any gear in the path the rise and fall time can be skewed. This doesn’t affect data, but puts jitter into musical data.
Click to expand...
just my thinking: a file on my pc downloaded from the internet is the same file stored on the original server. It is data. That data is transported from all servers over the world, it crosses the ocean, transported by a few servers, before it reaches my house. And then it still has to pass the first ISP modem, a second router and lastly the final accesspoint on which my network player is connected. In that whole chain of data transformers, I have no idea on which device to start changing. my modem is delivered by the ISP, so there is no way to change that. It is brand X and you have to use it. What to change, router or AP, , while my modem is a fixed item brand X. in my opinion, I cannot change all the internet in my own home, not to talk about every individual server outside. Is there an easier solution to bypass the whole problem of the chain of all servers? Store the original data file on my own SSD harddisc in my own house. which is located after the last switch, stored on a Roon main server. Is it an idea to have downloaded first the file with Tidal or Qobuz, store it to your Roon server, and when listening the sound is delivered instantly from your Roon server, instead of setting up a stream? In my opinion the file on the Roon server is the same as on the original server, so no need for complicated switches. Or do I miss something crucial here?
 
Alkyogre said:
just my thinking: a file on my pc downloaded from the internet is the same file stored on the original server. It is data. That data is transported from all servers over the world, it crosses the ocean, transported by a few servers, before it reaches my house. And then it still has to pass the first ISP modem, a second router and lastly the final accesspoint on which my network player is connected. In that whole chain of data transformers, I have no idea on which device to start changing. my modem is delivered by the ISP, so there is no way to change that. It is brand X and you have to use it. What to change, router or AP, , while my modem is a fixed item brand X. in my opinion, I cannot change all the internet in my own home, not to talk about every individual server outside. Is there an easier solution to bypass the whole problem of the chain of all servers? Store the original data file on my own SSD harddisc in my own house. which is located after the last switch, stored on a Roon main server. Is it an idea to have downloaded first the file with Tidal or Qobuz, store it to your Roon server, and when listening the sound is delivered instantly from your Roon server, instead of setting up a stream? In my opinion the file on the Roon server is the same as on the original server, so no need for complicated switches. Or do I miss something crucial here?
Click to expand...

Yes, you’re just talking. Try it yourself and then come back here.
 
Alkyogre said:
What do you think? why is a switch causing jitter in a buffered audio file and is a special audio switch better in reducing it?
Click to expand...

There’s plenty you can read online that I need not add anything. If you’re looking for someone to argue with, trying it yourself in your system should be the prerequisite.
 
Phishphan said:
Data signals are 1's and 0's. It either works or doesn't.
Click to expand...

Not true, and very easy to demonstrate so. Run 1080P video (i.e. a data signal) over 10m+ HDMI and you might get a crystal clear image, or you might get sparkle artifacts of various degrees. The end result depends on the quality of the cable. Same 1's and 0's going into the source end of the cable.
 
brodricj said:
Not true, and very easy to demonstrate so. Run 1080P video (i.e. a data signal) over 10m+ HDMI and you might get a crystal clear image, or you might get sparkle artifacts of various degrees. The end result depends on the quality of the cable. Same 1's and 0's going into the source end of the cable.
Click to expand...

If you see sparkles or artifacts all that is telling you is that the cable is bad. This has nothing to do with price.

A well performing (i.e., no artifacts) HDMI cable can be an inexpensive cable (monoprice, blue jeans cable, Amazon basics) or it can also be an expensive one.

Let me add that when HDMI cables are too long, you may need to run an active HDMI cable.
 
I didn't mention price as being a determining factor. The point was, it was said they are 1's and 0's going in one end and coming out the other. If so, why do some cables result in artifacts? When you end up with different quality images, some with artifacts, some without, tells you what's coming out the end of the cable are not identical 1's and 0's.
 
brodricj said:
I didn't mention price as being a determining factor. The point was, it was said they are 1's and 0's going in one end and coming out the other. If so, why do some cables result in artifacts? When you end up with different quality images, some with artifacts, some without, tells you what's coming out the end of the cable are not identical 1's and 0's.
Click to expand...

Why do some cables result in artifacts?

Several reasons. One is that HDMI specifications have changed over the years. An old HDMI cable built to standards from ten years ago will not be able to pass 4K signals today. You need HDMI Certified Premium cables to pass 4K signals. I had HDMI 1.0 cables in my wall that I just recently had to replace them because of it. They showed artifacts and freezing of the frame.

Another reason is bad quality construction of the cable. There are cheap and pricey HDMI cables that when tested do not meet the required specifications.

We both agree that the price of the cable has nothing to do with it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top