Is High-End Gear Really that Superior…I doubt it

NorthStar said:
Gary, this one's just for you. :)


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I actually heard those speakers in person earlier this year. Didn't care for them. (Bass was sloppy, highs had no detail, generally muddy sounding speakers. No idea what the price tag was. Might blame the source and/or room at least in part, but it's hard to say with what I heard).
 
MusicDirector said:
I actually heard those speakers in person earlier this year. Didn't care for them. (Bass was sloppy, highs had no detail, generally muddy sounding speakers. No idea what the price tag was. Might blame the source and/or room at least in part, but it's hard to say with what I heard).
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No, they suck.
 
NorthStar said:
Thoses are the Blade (KEF) loudspeakers, and I believe they cost $30,000/pair.
Please correct me if I'm wrong in my belief.
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You are correct Bob - and they aren't my cup of tea (or for stronger language - see my comment above).
 
Mike said:
You are correct Bob - and they aren't my cup of tea (or for stronger language - see my comment above).
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THank YOU!!!

I was telling them that over at WBF. I LOVE the LS-50, but agree with 6Moons that the Blades underwhelms.

I saw them last year driven by Soulution electronics and they failed the PTA cricket tests (Roadhouses and Automobiles- Chris Jones). Could hear the faint cricket sound, a test of low level detail. The LS50 had no probe with this. Very disappointing.

For that kinda money, the Franco Serblin Ktemas blew them away…in my opinion.
 
Mike said:
You are correct Bob - and they aren't my cup of tea (or for stronger language - see my comment above).
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Glad you said it Mike. Just shows that money often doesn't buy quality. I heard a $600 pair of bookshelf powered speakers that chewed up the Blades and spit them out that same day.
 
I like this thread for a lot of reasons...

First, it is pretty clear that the higher you go, the smaller the percentage of improvement vs cost. Its been said by many - diminishing returns.

Second, and most important, it really involves a lot of factors, including your ears. My whole system (including cables, power, etc.) barely reaches 10k yet; I would not and cannot find a reason to replace anything. And trust me, I was the tweaker from hell..lol...squeezing whatever I could to get the desired sound. Well, every time I think of changing a part, say my pre-amp, I now say "Why" ? For looks ? Because its different ? I don't feel any lack so why change? Might a different pre sound better ? Perhaps...but perhaps not...I don't feel the need to throw money at a maybe

People have even told me I should change my placement, add room treatements, etc...Again...why ? I like the soundstage, the clarity, clear tight bass...no bad reflections. The room works ..interesting too is it works close (in my listening chair) and further away (in the house) there is a certain quality to the sound that is pretty amazing..

Anyway, I have no plans to change anything but hey, any of you have some high end gear you wish me to test, I'll be happy to provide my address and tell you if it really sounds better. I'll send it back..eventually...LOL
 
Is High-End Gear Really that Superior…I doubt it

I would bet that 100% of the members systems would perform 90% of what we would expect. It's that last 10% that would be perceived as perfection that's hard to get. Is it worth the money? I don't know for you guys but it's worth every penny that my wife will let me spend . But let's face it, this is fun times for the 2ch world. Pride of ownership and my gun is bigger than your gun will always be a determining factor as well. Love this stuff!!!
 
Who knows? Who cares? These threads are always by people trying to justify to themselves that their inexpensive gear is as good as more expensive gear. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Who cares?

Is cheap wine the same as expensive wine? They both get you drunk. Are cheap cars the same as expensive cars? They both get you from point A to point B. Buy what you want and don't worry about what others do.
 
MusicDirector said:
In my opinion, the gear is only as good as the recording and the room acoustics whether the gear is $100 or $100K. No piece of gear , high-end or otherwise can help a poor recording or bad room acoustics. It's also in the ears of the beholder.
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This is is an good example of a "Yes and no" answer. I have more than one Classic Rock CD that didn't sound very good, especially at high volume. I should mention I copied these files onto my music server (Bryston BDP-1, BDA-1 DAC), and they did sound a bit better. However, that was due to the music server/DAC combination being better than my CD player. The file was still the same, not the best recording in the world, and sounded poor.

But, despite the above quote, gear makes these poor files sound better. Much better. First, I upgraded my DAC from a Bryston BDA-1 to a BDA-2, and this allowed me to play these songs at a higher SPL for a longer time, with less fatigue. Second was my recent power cord upgrade on the BDP-1. I went from a Shunyata Zitron Cobra to a Shunyata Zitron Alpha (specifically designed for digital gear), and the 'poor' recordings now sound quite good. Damn good, to be honest.


In this case, a DAC and a power cord were able to extract musical goodness from files that were assumed to have little potential. The moral of this story is there are no absolutes when it comes to electronic reproduction of recorded music, and anyone who speaks in absolutes will most likely be proven wrong.
 
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Yes Bud, I think you describe the underreported AMPLITUDE distortion in digital right there. Its of equal if not more importance than jitter, IHMO. Power supply is (nearly) everything.
 
MusicDirector said:
Glad you said it Mike. Just shows that money often doesn't buy quality. I heard a $600 pair of bookshelf powered speakers that chewed up the Blades and spit them out that same day.
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Best speakers I've ever heard for the money ... Hands down....are the Emerald Physics. I swear, I was listening at RMAF and thought the little ones were $20,000 a pair and the big ones were $50,000/pair. The numbers are actually closer to 1/10 that price.

They aren't the most attractive speaker in the world and the fact they need to be biamped is a little wonky, but damn, get it right and it sounds amazing. AND - the one thing that none of these so called experts talk about when they talk about the Emerald Physics is their design (!!!) - as a dipole speaker, it makes them very easy to integrate into any room with much less problems with room acoustics. Just give them a little space from the front wall (say 2-3 feet) and look out. Big, beautiful sound.
 
BlueFox said:
Who knows? Who cares? These threads are always by people trying to justify to themselves that their inexpensive gear is as good as more expensive gear. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Who cares?

Is cheap wine the same as expensive wine? They both get you drunk. Are cheap cars the same as expensive cars? They both get you from point A to point B. Buy what you want and don't worry about what others do.
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LOL. Well said.
 
Mike said:
Best speakers I've ever heard for the money ... Hands down....are the Emerald Physics. I swear, I was listening at RMAF and thought the little ones were $20,000 a pair and the big ones were $50,000/pair. The numbers are actually closer to 1/10 that price.

They aren't the most attractive speaker in the world and the fact they need to be biamped is a little wonky, but damn, get it right and it sounds amazing. AND - the one thing that none of these so called experts talk about when they talk about the Emerald Physics is their design (!!!) - as a dipole speaker, it makes them very easy to integrate into any room with much less problems with room acoustics. Just give them a little space from the front wall (say 2-3 feet) and look out. Big, beautiful sound.
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No Mike,

Linkwitz Orion speakers are open baffle DIPOLE with analog signal processing (latest design).

Emerald Physics is an open baffle, electronic X-over, controlled directivity (wave guided), bi/tri-amped, DSP freq. equalized and time domain aligned , speaker system. Phew, I said a mouthful, but basically Clayton Shaw and now Underwood Wally whas thrown every speaker tech including the bathroom sink into this design. Kidding they left out Dipole, ribbons, transmission lines, but you get my point.

I spent hours on the phone with Wally and got a sale for him of the 6Moons review unit in Switz (it went for a steal compared to what they can do). I also got a Boston Pal to move from tubes/Horns to an EP2.7 (Beyma m/HF drivers and Cullen modded Behringer DSP), as he is a dynamics junkie and nothing I have heard are as dynamic as the EPs! He is still toying with the idea of junking the Behringer and going full Clayton Show Spatial computing system, but is hesitant as he still does spinning disk and vinyl.

The room setup in EP is based on putting in room paramenters and entering preset formulae for the Behringher which configures it for a very close approximation to ideal room dispersion and sound wave directivity. the speakers WILL NOT WORK without this. They will sound like Garbage without the Behringer brain. Spatial takes this to the next level and MICRO-OPTIMIZES the DSP control to whatever speaker placement you decide on (of course decent setup is needed to not limit the SQ possibilities). This is done by computer over the internet where they can test and refine the parameters till they are perfect.

Gradient Helsinki 1.5s with Gradient subs are a very similar concept to the basic EP setup and with a DSPeaker DC anti-mode 2.0 room bass corrector, you can achieve much of the same. The gardients cost $6K new and $3K usewd commonly. They also look like modern art.


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A long winded way to say Yes, I agree and DSP is the future. In 2-3 years we will see wireless Active DSP controlled speaker sytems with Dacs built in and needing just an iPod as source and they will sound stunning.
 
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