ICEpower vs. Ncore question.

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ajellison83

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Hi there. I was checking out the specs of the Ncore amps and was wondering how compatible they are with 4 ohm speakers. The nc500 shows 400 into 8 ohms, 700 into 4 ohms, and 550 into 2 ohms. My speakers are 4 ohm and one of the things I look for in an amp is that the rated power doubles when going from 8 ohm to 4 ohm. My philosophy is that if it doubles at 4 ohms, it'll be more likely to be able to handle transients that can dip the resistance into the 2 ohm region. The fact that the Ncore doesn't quite double the power into 4 ohms doesn't bother me too much, but the fact it drops way down when in the 2 ohm rating makes me wonder if they're not really suited for 4 ohm speakers as well as they are for 8 ohm speakers.

I'm currently running a pair of monoblocks from PS Audio that have the ICEpower 700ASC boards in them. My understanding is that they've gone through and tweaked the input stage to make it sound a little warmer and get rid of some of the things people complain about with the ICEpower boards. They sound great to me, but I still wonder if there's something I'm missing out on not trying the Ncore amps out. I have two hi-fi setups, one that's very musical sounding and forgiving, and one that's highly revealing and sensitive to things like different amps. Both setups have 4 ohm speakers and if there's a better sounding Class D amp than the PS Audio ICEpower ones, I'd sure like to try it out with my highly revealing setup and move my current monoblocks to my musical sounding setup. What do you guys think?
 
ajellison83 said:
My philosophy is that if it doubles at 4 ohms, it'll be more likely to be able to handle transients that can dip the resistance into the 2 ohm region. The fact that the Ncore doesn't quite double the power into 4 ohms doesn't bother me too much, but the fact it drops way down when in the 2 ohm rating makes me wonder if they're not really suited for 4 ohm speakers as well as they are for 8 ohm speakers.
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Welcome "AJ". :hey:
Very few amps can actually deliver the 2x power each halving of impedance (not resistance). "Specs" and measured performance are not the same thing. That includes your "4 ohm" speakers. Without the actual model and/or impedance curve - which varies with frequency, no way to analyze without assumptions. Btw, those are all RMS 'continuous" ratings, not dynamic, like actual music signals.
Unless you have some pathelogical audiophile design loudspeaker, both the higher power ICE and NCore based designs should drive them with aplomb.
Specfifcs are helpful.

cheers
 
Welcome! No trouble with IcePower AS1200 modules driving my Thiel 3.7s, which although rated at 4 ohms are really probably about 3 (between 2 and 3 ohms over most of the audio band), with a mininum of 2.3 or 2.4 if one looks at reviews with detailed measurements. They don't even get what I'd call much above room temperature cranking them and I don't have a small room.
 
ajellison83 said:
Hi there. I was checking out the specs of the Ncore amps and was wondering how compatible they are with 4 ohm speakers. The nc500 shows 400 into 8 ohms, 700 into 4 ohms, and 550 into 2 ohms. My speakers are 4 ohm and one of the things I look for in an amp is that the rated power doubles when going from 8 ohm to 4 ohm. My philosophy is that if it doubles at 4 ohms, it'll be more likely to be able to handle transients that can dip the resistance into the 2 ohm region. The fact that the Ncore doesn't quite double the power into 4 ohms doesn't bother me too much, but the fact it drops way down when in the 2 ohm rating makes me wonder if they're not really suited for 4 ohm speakers as well as they are for 8 ohm speakers.

I'm currently running a pair of monoblocks from PS Audio that have the ICEpower 700ASC boards in them. My understanding is that they've gone through and tweaked the input stage to make it sound a little warmer and get rid of some of the things people complain about with the ICEpower boards. They sound great to me, but I still wonder if there's something I'm missing out on not trying the Ncore amps out. I have two hi-fi setups, one that's very musical sounding and forgiving, and one that's highly revealing and sensitive to things like different amps. Both setups have 4 ohm speakers and if there's a better sounding Class D amp than the PS Audio ICEpower ones, I'd sure like to try it out with my highly revealing setup and move my current monoblocks to my musical sounding setup. What do you guys think?
Click to expand...

At some point you may wish to try the Mola Mola Kaluga amps...for me they deliver on all fronts as I’m thrilled with their performance. Happy listening!


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From what I understand the nCore NC500 is limited only by the current it delivers (26A), with its duration depending on thermal dissipation. That means, when impedances get low (2 ohms), the voltage is not the bottleneck but the current is. Or the other way around, when using higher impedances (4+ ohms), its voltage goes higher, the current is not a bottleneck and it delivers more power. It is just a matter of where the bottleneck is.

If you need more current delivery for extra power, the NC1200 is exactly that: same power rating for 8 ohms (400W) and 4 ohms (700W), but unleashes 1200W in 2 ohms compared to "only" 550W of the NC500, which is quite insane. Apollon NC1200 SL for example. The downside is a tiny little more distortion on lower power (compared to NC500, see datasheets, yet still very low), and also about $800 usd more expensive. So in my opinion, unless you have a very large room with really big speakers, I don't think the NC1200 is worth the price premium. I have read that in more common conditions, that is, small to medium rooms with normal sized floorstanding speakers, even low impedance ones, both NC500 and NC1200 sound very similar. But I have not heard both side by side myself.

What I did hear myself was when I upgraded from an dual ICEpower 125ASX2 based integrated (Wyred 4 Sound STI-500v2), using its balanced input in HT bypass from the preamp, and compared to my current dual NC500 based power amp (Apollon NC800 SL with the larger Sparkos SS2590 opamps). Even with the super low impedance Thiel CS3.7, the sound was quite similar, with a little more clarity on mids and highs for the NC500. I did not push the volume to play it super loud though, just normal listening volume. So the extra headroom of the NC500 was not a big deal compared to the 125ASX2, I suppose the same would apply to the NC1200. Which is why my next upgrade will be on that same power level, but now from the enhanced module from Purifi. :)
 
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