I am no more an audiophile !

Jerome W

Jerome W

Active member
Joined
Apr 5, 2013
Messages
1,289
Location
Near Paris, France
Hello folks,

I wanted to share with you my thoughts about a change that came through the years, concerning how I judge audio gear.
I have been at some time a real "audiophile". I have analyzed the sound of my systems, like a chemist would analyze a substance.
I sold some gear because that part of the spectrum was not exactly " as it should be". Or because of not enough resolution or transparency. Not enough dynamics, speed, whatever. Too much of bloom, too much bass, whatever. You know the never ending " not enough of this and too much of that"
I just lost my time and my energy. But most of all, I was just NOT LISTENING to MUSIC. I was listening to SOUNDS.
I am still passionated about audio. I keep buying lots of stuff. I have 4 systems at home and one headphone system at the office. And I just love audio gear.
BUT, I do not judge them the way I used to.

I realized that yesterday.
I brought home a vintage pair of Kef 104. The T27 tweeters, very famous because they are the tweeters of the LS3/5a, have been replaced by Scanspeak D2008, and the filter was changed accordingly.
And I listened to that speakers yesterday, both at the seller's place and at my home. And I realized that I do not care anymore about all the audiophile things. I paid 350 euros for this pair of speakers with their wood feet. I placed them in my living room. And... I listen to music and.... I love it !

So I realized that now, the only questions that matter to me when I listen to a system are :
( French : Est ce que cela sonne bien ou pas ? suis je dans l'attente de la prochaine note ou pas ? est ce que je suis en train d'écouter une enceinte et des sons ou bien un album ? Est ce que je peux écouter un peu fort sans être aggressé ? Est ce que je peux écouter longtemps sans être fatigué ? Est ce que je m'ennuie ou est ce que je m'amuse ?)

- does it sound good or not ?
- am I waiting for the next note or not ?
- am I listening to the speaker or to the recording ?
- can I listen at a pretty high volume without feeling aggressed ?
- can I listen during a long time without feeling tired ?
- am I boring or do I have fun ?

These are my only concerns.
I am no more an audiophile. I am now finally a music lover !
 
Jerome, One thing I have learnt is that there is a lot of vintage professional analogue gear out there like Studer that was built extremely well and is quite serviceable to this day.

Why does 40 year old technology often sound more musical?
 
Steve said:
Jerome, One thing I have learnt is that there is a lot of vintage professional analogue gear out there like Studer that was built extremely well and is quite serviceable to this day.

Why does 40 year old technology often sound more musical?
Click to expand...

Steve : you are right.
I do not know the answer.
Maybe, but that is just a guess, because this gear is less resolved than the modern one.
Hence you hear more music and less recording / engineering / mastering disturbances ?
 
Jerome W said:
Giving more listening pleasure.
Click to expand...

So, the idea of more musical is a subjective interpretation. For example, I find more listening pleasure with vinyl [more musical] and others may disagree and say listening to hi-res digital files is better [more musical]. Yes?

Thus, one medium isn't more musical than the other. It's all just a matter of opinion and what resonates with the listener, right?
 
Golucid said:
So, the idea of more musical is a subjective interpretation. For example, I find more listening pleasure with vinyl [more musical] and others may disagree and say listening to hi-res digital files is better [more musical]. Yes?

Thus, one medium isn't more musical than the other. It's all just a matter of opinion and what resonates with the listener, right?
Click to expand...

Please...
Don't tell me that you are discovering now that our hobby is purely relying on subjectivity ?
 
I think, the more knowledgeable we become in this hobby, we observe & listen with an educated ear to the point when we reach a crossroads, which then becomes our benchmark. After that, man it becomes fun when we learn to relax.
 
Jérome,
I went through this not so long ago.
My conclusions: yes there was a time when the bass drivers were weighting 25 kg and these are still working, and working damn fine, 30, 40 years after their production date.
Yes the “making money first and formost” conception has taken over most of companies, if not all, and the “mark Levinson early time” approach is vanishing almost averywhere.
Yes advertising is fulling us with shit all day long, and nowadays specs are increased rather than conservatively asssumed (my 275 has been measured at 90 or 100 W…for instance, same for the ML when he was in charged).
BUT: technology make some progesses as you might well be aware, and in every fields including audio components.
Conclusion: stuff well done today outperform stuff well done in the past.
But : yes stuff well done in the past will outperform plastic shit made today, of course!
(no need to say that stuff well done today are better than bad stuff from the past, I think you got the message…)
A Sansui 555 at 200 € on “le bon coin” (French second hand sale site) will certainly outperform a lot of integrated below 3000 €… and some JBL 4430 at 2500 € will equal some Pierre Etienne Leon at 7500 € …. So vintage is good for poor audiophiles… Now rich audiophiles (like some of you on this site….) will buy the best of today’s production wich clearly outperform vintage gear.
For instance of all this: the C22 CE (1900-2100 € second hand) was killing the C220 (5500 € new) but was beaten badly by the Bryston BP17 (3900 € with the phono option and the 20 years warranty)…
So dry you tears and come on back in the more of this less on that silly game…
David
 
Jerome, please send me all that HE gear you will no longer be listening to :)

I find myself listening to my secondary system more than my main. Put on Pandora and just enjoy all the great tracks it throws my way.
 
This is the best thread we've had in a long time. Thank you for starting it Jerome. [emoji106]

Music Lover Paul (the audiophile formerly known as BlueMcIntosh) and I have this discussion all the time. Audiophile sounds vs Musical sounds. We text back and forth all the time about different "gears". To us, "gears" typically fall on one side of the equation or the other. Sometimes we come across a piece or a speaker that stumps us, but not usually. Sometimes the vintage gear is an eye opener, a window into the past of how we use to listen to music. Sometimes modern gear shows us a new side to our old collection of music.

And as they say, you can hear everything we can measure, but you can't measure everything we can hear.

Great discussion, great thread.
 
^^^ Generally speaking, yes technology marches on but progressively tech is built to be disposable or has been engineered with a use by date in mind. Companies hope to develop brand awareness and stickiness, good enough for the customer to buy again in the not too distant future. Each new product generation sees cheaper components and materials with a view to capture greater margin in a globally saturated space. What is the differentiator? Often it is simply the distinctive chassis and development kit implementation.

There are boutique exceptions where you still get total inhouse quality fabrication.

Vintage is not poor man's audiophile. Often it is a smart buy and a better longer term investment in HiFi than lot's of the outrageously overpriced kit currently out there. There are vintage classics that are highly sort after. Equipment that was built to last decades. You need to learn what to look for. Some of that equipment maybe depreciated (eg tape, radio) but remains relevant to the enthusiast, the likes that you will never see so well engineered again.

There are brands that have had their legacy, some for decades but are failing to distinctively innovate and remain relevant in today's world.

There are brands that build bleeding edge digital and charge an absolute fortune for their boxes but buyers are victim to the amortisation of Moore's Law.

There are brands that have remained consistent because they refuse to compromise quality. The Swiss come to mind. There are many Swiss classics.

There are special individuals who have gone to build their own distinctive new brand where real talent excels alongside driven innovation and quality workmanship. Often here, price is no object, demand exceeds supply and these will be the classic vintage collectibles of the future.

I would like to see more enthusiasts pay homage to the classics.
 
Ok steve you are on the classic vintage side... my sentence: vintage is for poor audiophiles" might have hurted your feelings but still... Vintage is a way to get good gear a cheaper prices.... so goes to the (clever) not so forunated audiophiles... If your budget is say between 50k and 150 k$ you stop looking at vintage or only by curiosity, or collection sake... I woudn't buy 4430 if I could afford M2 !
So I was on your side till my sansui went wrong, my C22 went wrong, my L101 went wrong.... etc... and those capricious and too proud repair man or tech, I am sick and tired of them...

and yes I have been adviced the yamaha by a disillusioned audiophile, selling multibox material, and telling: for everyday it more than fine... and indeed: no need for tubes to warm up, the wife and kids play with the tablet and spotify and the 14 month little last one is dancing till she sweats!

And when it comes to listening to the gear versus to the music.... well yes this might be the difference between healthy (still listening to the music) and unhealthy (listening only to the gear) hobby....
 
It is difficult to measure value in the pursuit of this hobby. I think it's about finding a level of excellence that you are prepared to live with. I tend to gravitate towards engineering excellence built to potentially last a decade to a lifetime. It has to remain musically relevant, timeless.

Sometimes I get it wrong but I end up being more of a gear keeper than a gear swapper.
 
I totally agree it s a question of : at which level you reach unequivoqual satisfaction... I am not far from it so I buy music these days...
and Bryston seems to meet your definition....
and i can tell from your signature that you have contemporaneous MCINTOSHs....
 
Jerome.......Very interesting topic. I don't consider myself an audiophile. I think of myself as an audio enthusiast. By that I mean nearly all things relating to the reproduction of voice and musical instruments capture my interest. I have an equal enthusiasm for the sound of live voices, musical instruments, and sound in general. I pray my ears never fail me. They bring me so much joy.

My quest for the correct audio reproduction equipment has been a long and winding road but I have always known what I like, the purity of sound whether live or recorded. In my life I have owned and sampled a long list of audio components, loudspeakers, and assorted ancillary items in an effort to bring that pureness of sound into my home. I am confident I have achieved my goal. I know this because I no longer lust for new equipment, rather I desire to listen to music on the sound systems I have assembled. I look forward to enjoying the sound of voices, musical instruments, and performances. I am able to enjoy my audio systems in the same way that I enjoy sitting on a bench along one of my property's paths and delighting in the sound of wind rustling the leaves in the tree tops. I don't ask why or how the sound is made, I simply savor the experience and pleasure it brings. That's why I think of myself as an audio enthusiast. The intensity of my enjoyment centers on the sound, not the equipment. My eagerness to listen to music is greater now than it has ever been. For me, that is the essence of enthusiasm and why I consider myself an audio enthusiast rather than an audiophile. This does not mean I no longer appreciate the beauty and engineering excellence of fine audio equipment because I most certainly do. It is simply no longer the center of my attention.

I'm not trying to say I have never been a crazed audiophile because that would be a lie. In the past I have relentlessly searched for more and more, whether it was higher resolution, wider dynamics, darker backgrounds, thunderous volume, infinitesimally low distortion, and so on. The list was long and onerous. There were times when I literally drove myself crazy being unable to disconnect from the sound of the equipment. I could not hear the music for the noises I continuously tried to find and identify. Music had simply become an endless test tone that served as a reference for policing the sound. Where is the pleasure in that? There is none.

I am so pleased with the audio systems I have today. I haven't changed anything of significance in a few years because I no longer feel driven to find something that is lacking. The stress of my gear quest has vanished. Music now reigns supreme. This doesn't mean that audio gear no longer interests me or that I may never be inclined to alter or add something in the future. It merely means those activities are no longer the focus of my listening experience.
 
steve and Dan, you are two MC2301 owners and hold the same speech: the search has found an end... well I just wish Mcintosh was not double the price in France than it is in the USA...
 
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