DSD versus PCM - Is DSD really better or is it a 'myth'

BlueFox

BlueFox

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"DSD is 1-bit PCM, and in almost all practical systems, it greatly complicates the path between the A/D and D/A converter. "

"There are many spectacular DSD recordings, but the quality is not due to any virtues of the DSD format."

"Nevertheless, the measured performance of DSD falls between that of the CD and 96 kHz 24-bit PCM."

"DSD is almost exactly equivalent to a 20-bit 96 kHz PCM system. "

Audio Myth -"DSD Provides a Direct Stream from A/D to D/A" - Benchmark Media Systems, Inc.

Makes sense to me. Probably why the Berkely Audio Referance DAC only does PCM.
 
I have only 1 native DSD recording from Blue Coast and it sounds no different than its standard Redbook CD recording both run using HQ player.

Using HQ player to upconvert to DSD, some music sounds better at DSD and other music sounds better at 96K. It can be frustrating but I seem to have it figured out which music will sound better at different resolutions.
 
I can definitely see why only doing one format in a DAC would make sense. That way the DAC can be optimized for one or the other. Trying to do both in the same dac, seems to compromise both.
 
Old stuff. The guy is a DSD hater. Whenyou hear quality DSD done right, there can be no question.

Nothing to see there.
 
wisnon said:
Old stuff. The guy is a DSD hater. Whenyou hear quality DSD done right, there can be no question.

Nothing to see there.
Click to expand...

That's a circular argument. One could turn that around and say if you have heard PCM done right, there is no question.

Until I heard the MSB Select DAC on Redbook tracks I "might" have agreed that DSD was probably the best digital I had heard. Too bad there is no listenable DSD content for me.
 
This PCM vs DSD debate has been going on in every audio and computer audio forum out there since hi-rez stuff started and its never answered, just people defending what they have heard or know or what someone has told them or they read it somewhere. And I agree with Jim, it all depends on the artist and I would like to add, what type of music the person likes. But me, give me a well made recording with an artist that I enjoy and I don't care what format its in. Man its all about the music.
 
I've gone back to my oPPo 95 for a transport......
 
still-one said:
The question for me, is the artist/performance interesting. The quality of the recording comes in a distant second.
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I sort of agree. Generally, I don't listen to music I do not care for, regardless of the quality. On the other hand, I would prefer the best quality available for music I do like.
 
+1 Bud. Especially true with LPs, looking for good pressings/masterings, etc.
 
Buy the Opus4 DSD128 Sampler. I have the tape also, so I have "the" analog benchmark comparison.

The Opus4 DSD128 sampler is a good test base for your DAC and player.

I found that up sampling to DSD256 from the 128 recording on the fly using JPlay offered further improvement and a closer approximation to the analog tape master copy on the iFi iDSD.

Blacker but it is not as dynamic as tape. It would be great to compare a balanced Lampizator GG + CAPs JPlay vs Studer A810 loaded with A820 output amps.

When comparing PCM vs DSD, IMO PCM sounds best at 96/24. DSD continues to sound more organic the higher you go with it. Of course the outcome depends on the quality of the source and how well it was digitised to begin with.
 
still-one said:
That's a circular argument. One could turn that around and say if you have heard PCM done right, there is no question.

Until I heard the MSB Select DAC on Redbook tracks I "might" have agreed that DSD was probably the best digital I had heard. Too bad there is no listenable DSD content for me.
Click to expand...
Have you heard a broken in GG do DSD, for example?
 
CPP said:
This PCM vs DSD debate has been going on in every audio and computer audio forum out there since hi-rez stuff started and its never answered, just people defending what they have heard or know or what someone has told them or they read it somewhere. And I agree with Jim, it all depends on the artist and I would like to add, what type of music the person likes. But me, give me a well made recording with an artist that I enjoy and I don't care what format its in. Man its all about the music.
Click to expand...
All this may be true, but teh fact is DSD is the easier playback format to do well while PCM is the easier format to record in. You can now switch on the flay to any format you like anyway. The point is the Benchmark bashing is tired and biased and we heard it all before.

I personally admire great examples for both (I have heard the GG play DSD and the Trinity play PCM in the same system). Different flavors of delicious ice cream. What is there not to love?
 
Steve said:
Buy the Opus4 DSD128 Sampler. I have the tape also, so I have "the" analog benchmark comparison.

The Opus4 DSD128 sampler is a good test base for your DAC and player.

I found that up sampling to DSD256 from the 128 recording on the fly using JPlay offered further improvement and a closer approximation to the analog tape master copy on the iFi iDSD.

Blacker but it is not as dynamic as tape. It would be great to compare a balanced Lampizator GG + CAPs JPlay vs Studer A810 loaded with A820 output amps.

When comparing PCM vs DSD, IMO PCM sounds best at 96/24. DSD continues to sound more organic the higher you go with it. Of course the outcome depends on the quality of the source and how well it was digitised to begin with.
Click to expand...
Steve I have the IDSD and the B7. The Chipless DSD playback is a notch or 3 above the iDSD….which already is very, very good.
 
I am not aware of a rationale as to why DSD would be better than PCM. Not that I need one as proof, but a curious manufacturer would like to understand.

After a few years of trials, I came to the conclusion that PCM DAC conversion is often poorly made, and that musically satisfying DSD DAC conversion is simply easier. I never made it to the point where I missed DSD though, which would have tipped the balance.

I also found that the stages upstream of the DAC are more important than people assume, and I ended up spending (and advising clients to spend) more on digital transport than on DAC, as counter-intuitive as that may be.

But of course, given how few DSD files are actually available (not to mention affordable), that is a bit of a moot point for those who love to explore new music.
 
Steve said:
Buy the Opus4 DSD128 Sampler. I have the tape also, so I have "the" analog benchmark comparison.

The Opus4 DSD128 sampler is a good test base for your DAC and player.

I found that up sampling to DSD256 from the 128 recording on the fly using JPlay offered further improvement and a closer approximation to the analog tape master copy on the iFi iDSD.

Blacker but it is not as dynamic as tape. It would be great to compare a balanced Lampizator GG + CAPs JPlay vs Studer A810 loaded with A820 output amps.

When comparing PCM vs DSD, IMO PCM sounds best at 96/24. DSD continues to sound more organic the higher you go with it. Of course the outcome depends on the quality of the source and how well it was digitised to begin with.
Click to expand...

Agreed - 100% on all accounts.
 
Julot said:
I am not aware of a rationale as to why DSD would be better than PCM. Not that I need one as proof, but a curious manufacturer would like to understand.

After a few years of trials, I came to the conclusion that PCM DAC conversion is often poorly made, and that musically satisfying DSD DAC conversion is simply easier. I never made it to the point where I missed DSD though, which would have tipped the balance.

I also found that the stages upstream of the DAC are more important than people assume, and I ended up spending (and advising clients to spend) more on digital transport than on DAC, as counter-intuitive as that may be.

But of course, given how few DSD files are actually available (not to mention affordable), that is a bit of a moot point for those who love to explore new music.
Click to expand...
You can use HQPlayer to upconvert on the fly and play to your DSD Dac's strength. You dont need new music files.
 
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