DAC Comparison not going well …

GSOphile said:
You've lived with your D-02X for a while and no doubt gotten it well adjusted to your ear and your system. I have a K-01XD (coming from a K-03X), and it's taken me a while to understand this unit and get it anchored into my system for my music. The DAC section of this unit is very similar to the N-01XD, and IMO it's new discrete component DAC technology is a big step up from the chip-based DACs in Esoteric's prior units. That said, the new filter and up conversion settings in the XD units can have a significant impact on what you hear - tone, detail, sound stage, etc. So I'm wondering if the N-01XD you heard really got a fair shake relative to DACs you've lived with. And if heard the same way with the same settings, like you, I'm wondering if a D1X or D1X SE's house sound will differ substantially.
Click to expand...

A little history here might help ... before I bought the D-02X I had originally bought the K-03X then upgraded to the K-01X and never quite got happy with the size of the soundstage. However as I moved up the Esoteric line the soundstage became larger with more space and air. I noticed that more so than any change in timbre or tonal qualities as I moved up the line. In fact, it wasn't until I heard a D-02X that I was blown away with the sound. The D-02X design wise was closer to a single box D-1 than an upgraded K-01X or N-01 and it really checked all the boxes I was looking for at the time. That said ... even then I had heard a Vivaldi stack and while I liked it better wasn't in a position to spend that kind of money. So, I bought the D-02X and have been quite happy even when comparing that to my now sold-to-a-friend vinyl rig. It was after I bought my R2R that I decided that I wanted to upgrade my Digital front end as the R2R has created such a large gap that I was struggling to enjoy the digital front end. So, with that in mind I wanted to hear the new discrete DAC and I've had a chance to listen to a couple of models in my system at this point. They all have wonderful tonal qualities that I do like better than my current DAC but like before I am finding that as I listen to the progressively more expensive Esoteric DACs that the size and scope of the soundstage grows with it and is something super important to me personally. And yes this is personal preference and not an indicator of quality. So, since there isn't a D-02XD nor am I thinking one is coming, I am expecting that to get the sound I'm looking for I'll need to go all the way to the D1X SE if I stay in the Esoteric family of products. That said if I'm going to be at that price range then I will compare it to other comparable products from DCS and Wadax as well. I mentioned that I already bought the Rossini Apex and I did but its long term use will be my for my headphone setup.

As far as settings go .. the D-02X doesn't have the normal number of filters that could be changed as some of the other Esoteric dacs do so I can't say that its settings would be comparable but I can say that I did ensure all oversampling settings were consistent between models I compared. I also noticed that the newer models have different filter choices as you move up the line .. but for the most part I preferred the default settings and did most of my comparisons there.

What I am hoping to find is a DAC with the tonal qualities of the new Esoteric discrete dacs, the detail and layering that I'm hearing from the new Apex line of DCS DACs and a soundstage that blows out the walls of the room. I'll certainly update this thread once I hear some of the other DACs and its also possible that after I've swapped out my BAT Rex gear for the VAC Statement gear, my preferences may end up being totally different.

Cheers and thanks for going on the journey with me!

George
 
Just curious if you have listened to any of the top Lampizator DAC's?

gadawg said:
A little history here might help ... before I bought the D-02X I had originally bought the K-03X then upgraded to the K-01X and never quite got happy with the size of the soundstage. However as I moved up the Esoteric line the soundstage became larger with more space and air. I noticed that more so than any change in timbre or tonal qualities as I moved up the line. In fact, it wasn't until I heard a D-02X that I was blown away with the sound. The D-02X design wise was closer to a single box D-1 than an upgraded K-01X or N-01 and it really checked all the boxes I was looking for at the time. That said ... even then I had heard a Vivaldi stack and while I liked it better wasn't in a position to spend that kind of money. So, I bought the D-02X and have been quite happy even when comparing that to my now sold-to-a-friend vinyl rig. It was after I bought my R2R that I decided that I wanted to upgrade my Digital front end as the R2R has created such a large gap that I was struggling to enjoy the digital front end. So, with that in mind I wanted to hear the new discrete DAC and I've had a chance to listen to a couple of models in my system at this point. They all have wonderful tonal qualities that I do like better than my current DAC but like before I am finding that as I listen to the progressively more expensive Esoteric DACs that the size and scope of the soundstage grows with it and is something super important to me personally. And yes this is personal preference and not an indicator of quality. So, since there isn't a D-02XD nor am I thinking one is coming, I am expecting that to get the sound I'm looking for I'll need to go all the way to the D1X SE if I stay in the Esoteric family of products. That said if I'm going to be at that price range then I will compare it to other comparable products from DCS and Wadax as well. I mentioned that I already bought the Rossini Apex and I did but its long term use will be my for my headphone setup.

As far as settings go .. the D-02X doesn't have the normal number of filters that could be changed as some of the other Esoteric dacs do so I can't say that its settings would be comparable but I can say that I did ensure all oversampling settings were consistent between models I compared. I also noticed that the newer models have different filter choices as you move up the line .. but for the most part I preferred the default settings and did most of my comparisons there.

What I am hoping to find is a DAC with the tonal qualities of the new Esoteric discrete dacs, the detail and layering that I'm hearing from the new Apex line of DCS DACs and a soundstage that blows out the walls of the room. I'll certainly update this thread once I hear some of the other DACs and its also possible that after I've swapped out my BAT Rex gear for the VAC Statement gear, my preferences may end up being totally different.

Cheers and thanks for going on the journey with me!

George
Click to expand...
 
Mr Peabody said:
Just curious if you have listened to any of the top Lampizator DAC's?
Click to expand...

No sir not yet ... I know someone who has a GG2 and I'll go take a listen to his system soon but I'm not aware of any dealers in my area that would facilitate an in home demo of a Horizon. Lack of a matching SACD transport doesn't help either at least for me.

George
 
gadawg said:
So … I’ve been comparing some new DAC’s lately and it’s just not going very well....

...

So what’s been going so wrong? Well .. after listening to the digital front ends … I sit down, relax and play a tape on my Sonorus R2R and ALL of the DACs sound totally broken! Like, don’t even bother! I guess if everything I liked were available on tape I probably wouldn’t. I’m struggling to find a digital front end that I can sit back, relax and enjoy unless I don’t play my R2R for a while.

George
Click to expand...

The thing is that you are comparing apples and oranges. What you like about your tapes includes hiss, wow and flutter, and, potential limitations in frequency response (depending on recording speed and tape formulation). I posted above a YouTube video of a music producer that mixes tape and digital in his music recordings by capitalizing on the strengths of both media.
If you were to create a digital copy of a tape from your R2R, for example, 1) take any tape, 2) play it on your R2R, 3) digitize that output, and 4) use the digitized output with the DACs that you are testing, you will be more likely to get the tape sound that you are missing.
 
nicoff said:
The thing is that you are comparing apples and oranges. What you like about your tapes includes hiss, wow and flutter, and, potential limitations in frequency response (depending on recording speed and tape formulation). I posted above a YouTube video of a music producer that mixes tape and digital in his music recordings by capitalizing on the strengths of both media.
If you were to create a digital copy of a tape from your R2R, for example, 1) take any tape, 2) play it on your R2R, 3) digitize that output, and 4) use the digitized output with the DACs that you are testing, you will be more likely to get the tape sound that you are missing.
Click to expand...

I agree that R2R and digital are apples and oranges ... well that's all I agree with .. LOL

Good news is we don't have to agree and all is well with the world .. Cheers!

George
 
nicoff said:
The thing is that you are comparing apples and oranges. What you like about your tapes includes hiss, wow and flutter, and, potential limitations in frequency response (depending on recording speed and tape formulation). I posted above a YouTube video of a music producer that mixes tape and digital in his music recordings by capitalizing on the strengths of both media.
If you were to create a digital copy of a tape from your R2R, for example, 1) take any tape, 2) play it on your R2R, 3) digitize that output, and 4) use the digitized output with the DACs that you are testing, you will be more likely to get the tape sound that you are missing.
Click to expand...

If you have good analog , Digital will always sound broken when you switch between the two, for those who has both , you do realize its best to have a digital only session and or an analog only session.

The best i have heard digital get to analog is when using a lampi tooby DAC ..


Regards
 
gadawg said:
No sir not yet ... I know someone who has a GG2 and I'll go take a listen to his system soon but I'm not aware of any dealers in my area that would facilitate an in home demo of a Horizon. Lack of a matching SACD transport doesn't help either at least for me.

George
Click to expand...

Take it for a listen , BTW the newer dacs are supposedly ahead of the GG2 even the entry level ones ..

Regards
 
The new Lampi DAC's are an evolution from the past models, I still have a preference for the older design. Lampizator never had a steroetypical tube sound but the new DAC's I don't think anyone could tell had tubes if they didn't already know. That's not necessarily a bad thing I just enjoyed that touch of flesh and texture from the older model I was used to hearing. I get them mixed up, it was what used to be the flagship. Based on the amount of Lampi owners that moved to the Horizon I think I am a minority in my preference, LOL

With all that being said there is system differences and people love to roll tubes to consider. YMMV
 
steve59 said:
It would be pretty cool to hear what digital does to the analog recording
Click to expand...

I have actually digitized a few of my LPs as an experiment. I then used software to name each track and to eliminate the pops and clicks. Loved the results. Digital has never sounded more analog than that to me.
PS. BTW, in the YouTube video above, you can listen to the combined analog/digital sound.
 
The N-01XD + clock is insanely good. I don't see how anyone wouldn't be happy with that. How were you feeding the N-01XD? Ethernet? From the P-02x? USB?

I use optical ethernet to the EtherRegen, then out of that to the Ethernet input of the N-01XD. I clock both the N-01XD and the EtherRegen.

It's very hard to beat that IMHO. Running the P-02X into it should be better, it should be about as good as you'll get without spending 6 figures.
 
I have in the past , recorded digital to analog tape @15ips , best i have ever heard digital , sounded very analog , Body , tone and drive no electronic hardness typical of digital sound ...
 
gadawg said:
..What I am hoping to find is a DAC with the tonal qualities of the new Esoteric discrete dacs, the detail and layering that I'm hearing from the new Apex line of DCS DACs and a soundstage that blows out the walls of the room.
Click to expand...

I have a 7 box Grandioso stack and instead of that I'm listening to Bladelius ASK integrated with optional DAC module. The ASK has no definable weakness, other than it's a bit operationally flakey when driven by the Spotify iOS app. The Volumio app seems to be rock solid.
 
2fastdriving said:
The N-01XD + clock is insanely good. I don't see how anyone wouldn't be happy with that. How were you feeding the N-01XD? Ethernet? From the P-02x? USB?

I use optical ethernet to the EtherRegen, then out of that to the Ethernet input of the N-01XD. I clock both the N-01XD and the EtherRegen.

It's very hard to beat that IMHO. Running the P-02X into it should be better, it should be about as good as you'll get without spending 6 figures.
Click to expand...

Feeding with P-02X. Don’t get me wrong the N-01XD is very good .. just not sure its “better to me” than the D-02X that I already have when that was clocked with G-05. I’m just trying to see how much better I can get. Hoping for a larger improvement which may be very expensive as you alluded to. Have a friend who is receiving the newer N-01XD SE soon so I’ll take a listen to that also.

George
 
nicoff said:
I have actually digitized a few of my LPs as an experiment. I then used software to name each track and to eliminate the pops and clicks. Loved the results. Digital has never sounded more analog than that to me.
PS. BTW, in the YouTube video above, you can listen to the combined analog/digital sound.
Click to expand...

I did a very major project digitizing the bulk of my record and tape collection beginning around 2010. After doing a big shootout of the available A to D devices, I ended up with a Pacific Microsonics Model Two, using Merging Technologies Pyramix Software and Izotope RX Advanced for pops and clicks. I digitized at 192/24, the highest resolution that the Model Two does. All together took me six years, more than 12,000 hours to do 10,000 records and 2500 tapes, about 40+TB. Played through a top quality DAC (in my case a Lampizator Horizon) the sound is very fine - in some cases because of the scratches removed.

Larry
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top