Ayre KX-5 Twenty and VX-5 Twenty combo ......

MikeCh said:
Well, I don't know that I'd go that far. I've always been a believer that having some tubes somewhere in the chain can add a bit of flavor. For me, having tubes (all tube or tube hybrid designs) in the line stage and/or phono stage while using SS for power yields the best sound to my ears.
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Digital filters/modulators can do the same thing. But they need to be very powerful to get it right. Or swap the SIL994 with the Sparko.
 
Mivera Audio said:
Digital filters/modulators can do the same thing. But they need to be very powerful to get it right. Or swap the SIL994 with the Sparko.
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Cool, yep, plan on picking up the Sparkos opamps shortly just so I can see what sort of changes they impart. I really like the SI994 though at this point.

The beauty of being able to swap in all kinds of options for seasoning makes the Nord a bang up deal in my opinion.
 
MikeCh said:
Cool, yep, plan on picking up the Sparkos opamps shortly just so I can see what sort of changes they impart. I really like the SI994 though at this point.

The beauty of being able to swap in all kinds of options for seasoning makes the Nord a bang up deal in my opinion.
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Yes and some of the opamps you can try are under $2! And completely transform the sound of the amp. I'm confident with the right opamp, anyone can get the sound they are looking for out of their system with these amps. Another very tube like option is the Audio-GD OPA's. 3 versions to choose from:

http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/diy/OPA/OPAEN.htm
 
Mivera Audio said:
Digital filters/modulators can do the same thing.
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Sorry to say, but that is unfortunately a bit bold.

Case in point: You referred to guitar playing earlier, ever tried out the fine Line 6 amps? They digitally simulate tens of amp types and hundreds of effects. They sound kind of good, but do have very little in common to actually cranking up a Mesa, Vox or Marshall for that matter with good ol' bottles.

It is a generalisation on the level of analogue, digital... what ever. It's all just electrical current.

But, in case your point of view is that you do not hear the difference of tubes, class A, class AB or class D, then I understand your comment.
 
Kuoppis said:
Sorry to say, but that is unfortunately a bit bold.

Case in point: You referred to guitar playing either, ever tried out the fine Line 6 amps? They digitally simulate tens of amp types and hundreds of effects. They sound kind of good, but do have very little in common to actually cranking up a Mesa, Vox or Marshall for that matter with good ol' bottles.

It is a generalisation on the level of analogue, digital... what ever. It's all just electrical current.

But, in case your point of view is that you do not hear the difference of tubes, class A, class AB or class D, then I understand your comment.
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Those simulators for guitar amps are mediocre at best. Besides without the exact same driver, cabinet and amp, you will never get the exact same sound signature from a digital filter through a guitar amp.

I hear the difference between all of the amp types, but I also know when you have a completely transparent amp, you can easily manipulate the sound signature to sound however you want. Emulating a specific amp to try to make it exactly the same is a bit trickier. But you don't have to do that. All you need to do is get a sound signature that you like. With the Nord, the opamps are amplifiers. When you swap them out you are changing amplifiers. Only difference is they are much cheaper than swapping the whole amp to get a different sound.
 
Mivera Audio said:
Those simulators for guitar amps are mediocre at best.
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Well, they are exactly as mediocre as your digital filters. Except that e.g. Line 6 has a multiple of resources available to develop that stuff, compared to the audio companies you are referring to.

Besides, neither of those are where the art originates. The most advanced digitalisation tools, i.e. codecs, error correction, compression algorithms, signal processing and manipulation, QoS etc. are developed in telecoms, where you have tens of thousands of engineers figuring out how to preserve a signal over tens of thousands of miles and not where a handful of engineers are looking at the last three feet.

Besides without the exact same driver, cabinet and amp, you will never get the exact same sound signature from a digital filter through a guitar amp.
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You are kind of proving my point here, by digital manipulation you can get close but never achieve the original.

About the guitar amps, does not seem to be your area, the cabinets play only a negligible role. All cheap MDF with 1-4 huge full range woofers in them and typically half or fully open to the back. No real science here.

I hear the difference between all of the amp types, but I also know when you have a completely transparent amp, you can easily manipulate the sound signature to sound however you want. Emulating a specific amp to try to make it exactly the same is a bit trickier. But you don't have to do that. All you need to do is get a sound signature that you like. With the Nord, the opamps are amplifiers. When you swap them out you are changing amplifiers. Only difference is they are much cheaper than swapping the whole amp to get a different sound.
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Good, so you do concur that digital and analog sound different. That's the whole point.

I do not say Nord does not sound good, I do not say you cannot make them sound in different ways. I could imagine some may even prefer that sound. I am just saying, so far, you cannot make a digital simulation sound exactly as the original.

Then there is the dryness to digital amplification that just kills me. People talk about the liquid sound of tubes, so I might not be the only one who have noticed.

What comes to tubed electric guitar sound, I referred to the cathode follower principle earlier. That's the secret sauce. Also works in audio, my little EAR 834P Signature does that. While having other deficiencies, it gives me Jimi as close as possible to the original :).
 
Kuoppis said:
Well, they are exactly as mediocre as your digital filters. Except that e.g. Line 6 has a multiple of resources available to develop that stuff, compared to the audio companies you are referring to.

Besides, neither of those are where the art originates. The most advanced digitalisation tools, i.e. codecs, error correction, compression algorithms, signal processing and manipulation, QoS etc. are developed in telecoms, where you have tens of thousands of engineers figuring out how to preserve a signal over tens of thousands of miles and not where a handful of engineers are looking at the last three feet.



You are kind of proving my point here, by digital manipulation you can get close but never achieve the original.

About the guitar amps, does not seem to be your area, the cabinets play only a negligible role. All cheap MDF with 1-4 huge full range woofers in them and typically half or fully open to the back. No real science here.



Good, so you do concur that digital and analog sound different. That's the whole point.

I do not say Nord does not sound good, I do not say you cannot make them sound in different ways. I could imagine some may even prefer that sound. I am just saying, so far, you cannot make a digital simulation sound exactly as the original.

Then there is the dryness to digital amplification that just kills me. People talk about the liquid sound of tubes, so I might not be the only one who have noticed.

What comes to tubed electric guitar sound, I referred to the cathode follower principle earlier. That's the secret sauce. Also works in audio, my little EAR 834P Signature does that. While having other deficiencies, it gives me Jimi as close as possible to the original :).
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I'm glad you have experience with the digital filters I'm talking about. Ask Joe how dry his Nord's sound with the Sparko's. If you want sound so wet you will need to put on a wet suit in your living room, get the Audio GD OPA-Moon's.

I've noticed it's always the people without the experience who have all the answers.
 
audio.bill said:
This statement is coming from someone who has made system recommendations composed of gear he admits to never having heard. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
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Do you need to jump off a tall building to know it will kill you?
 
JA's review of the 50k Bel Canto Black system has some nice comparisons to the Ayre Twenty gear at the end:

"I wrote earlier how different the Bel Cantos system's sound quality was from that of the Ayre electronics. The Ayre combo had a robust overall sound—before being broken in, its sound was a little too robust—with a rhythmically coherent character that emphasized musical values. With every recording I played, the Ayres got the overall musical picture right. By contrast, the Black presented individual audio objects within the soundstage with superb detail, but those objects were not quite as well integrated into the whole as they were with the Ayre....But despite my familiarity with this recording, the experience of listening to it through Ayre's QB-9, KX-R Twenty, and MX-R Twentys was a little more like the first time I heard Erick Lichte's and my final mix, back in 2007."

Read more at http://www.stereophile.com/content/...ystem-follow-october-2015#a6wrmYomG76Gphph.99



 
Thanks for sharing. Sounds like Class D to me.

At RMAF (I think or it may have been another show?) they had KEF Blade 2's with the Bel Canto stack in one room and it sounded poor. Then, in another room, Parasound JC1's driving the KEF Blade 2's and it was amazing!

I love the benefits of pure Class D - cheap mega power in a box you can carry under your arm. But sonically, it's not there - YET.



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Mike said:
Thanks for sharing. Sounds like Class D to me.

At RMAF (I think or it may have been another show?) they had KEF Blade 2's with the Bel Canto stack in one room and it sounded poor. Then, in another room, Parasound JC1's driving the KEF Blade 2's and it was amazing!

I love the benefits of pure Class D - cheap mega power in a box you can carry under your arm. But sonically, it's not there - YET.



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Sounds like a mediocre input stage implementation. $50k and still can't get you what $2k can from a direct seller. It's a shame.
 
Ayres!!!!

Sorry, one quick line and last I will say... a newly designed Class D chip, the Wyred 4 Sound Statement Series (being introduces soon) with Blade 2's won best of show in the RMAF....

Back to Ayres.... my only experience with Ayres is my portable player, a Ayres Pono player!
 
So I went to a bar down the street last night called the Ayre. (Since this thread is about Ayre stuff I thought it would be ok to talk about here.) Suffice it to say its a very sweet watering hole. Anyway it turned out a group of some of the most experienced mountain climbers on the planet happened to be there. They had done Everest, McKinley you name it; they were a hoot. Then walks in this virtual reality expert who commences a dialogue with the mountain dudes. This guy really demonstrated a deep knowledge of his wares. He then claims to have designed a simulator that will provide all of the adrenaline rush, breathlessness, and real world life experiences of climbing to these summits; turns out he says his gizmo will even be better than the real thing. So a bit of a brouhaha gets going and it comes out that the virtual expert hasn't even built his gizmo and, beyond that, he has only climbed the hill he built in his back yard for the neighbor kids to sled on in the winter. It also turns out he had been frequenting other bars where climbers hang out making such claims and was even tossed out of one.

So here is the part I found fascinating. I am not surprised that a fella gets excited about his dreams and runs around trying to excite other fellas about such aspirations; what I found befuddling is that, all things considered, the mountain climbers even entertained the discussion. Ya see there are all sorts of other experts who have climbed lots of mountains and actually made, sold, and had products reviewed that purport to do similar things as this fella claims his gizmo can do. The problem is serious mountain climbers can't come to any kinda consensus on the virtues of such products. So why even fiddle with the first fella til he can put his money were his mouth is and let us play with his special gizmo??

Us mountain climbers is an odd bunch I guess. Anyway, I do recommend the Ayre to wet your whistle if your ever in the neighborhood.
 
Quite favorable review for the Ayres indeed - and they are magnificent.

I have not heard the Bel Cantos, but I guess there might still be a bit of space between not being better than the R/20 series Ayres and being bad. I guess Joe's and mine 5/20 series should fit into that space [emoji3].


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Nice!!!

FlexibleAudio said:
So I went to a bar down the street last night called the Ayre. (Since this thread is about Ayre stuff I thought it would be ok to talk about here.) Suffice it to say its a very sweet watering hole. Anyway it turned out a group of some of the most experienced mountain climbers on the planet happened to be there. They had done Everest, McKinley you name it; they were a hoot. Then walks in this virtual reality expert who commences a dialogue with the mountain dudes. This guy really demonstrated a deep knowledge of his wares. He then claims to have designed a simulator that will provide all of the adrenaline rush, breathlessness, and real world life experiences of climbing to these summits; turns out he says his gizmo will even be better than the real thing. So a bit of a brouhaha gets going and it comes out that the virtual expert hasn't even built his gizmo and, beyond that, he has only climbed the hill he built in his back yard for the neighbor kids to sled on in the winter. It also turns out he had been frequenting other bars where climbers hang out making such claims and was even tossed out of one.

So here is the part I found fascinating. I am not surprised that a fella gets excited about his dreams and runs around trying to excite other fellas about such aspirations; what I found befuddling is that, all things considered, the mountain climbers even entertained the discussion. Ya see there are all sorts of other experts who have climbed lots of mountains and actually made, sold, and had products reviewed that purport to do similar things as this fella's claims his gizmo can do. The problem is serious mountain climbers can't come to any kinda consensus on the virtues of such products. So why even fiddle with the first fella til he can put his money were his mouth is and let us play with his special gizmo??

Us mountain climbers is an odd bunch I guess. Anyway, I do recommend the Ayre to wet your whistle if your ever in the neighborhood.
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FlexibleAudio said:
So I went to a bar down the street last night called the Ayre. (Since this thread is about Ayre stuff I thought it would be ok to talk about here.) Suffice it to say its a very sweet watering hole. Anyway it turned out a group of some of the most experienced mountain climbers on the planet happened to be there. They had done Everest, McKinley you name it; they were a hoot. Then walks in this virtual reality expert who commences a dialogue with the mountain dudes. This guy really demonstrated a deep knowledge of his wares. He then claims to have designed a simulator that will provide all of the adrenaline rush, breathlessness, and real world life experiences of climbing to these summits; turns out he says his gizmo will even be better than the real thing. So a bit of a brouhaha gets going and it comes out that the virtual expert hasn't even built his gizmo and, beyond that, he has only climbed the hill he built in his back yard for the neighbor kids to sled on in the winter. It also turns out he had been frequenting other bars where climbers hang out making such claims and was even tossed out of one.

So here is the part I found fascinating. I am not surprised that a fella gets excited about his dreams and runs around trying to excite other fellas about such aspirations; what I found befuddling is that, all things considered, the mountain climbers even entertained the discussion. Ya see there are all sorts of other experts who have climbed lots of mountains and actually made, sold, and had products reviewed that purport to do similar things as this fella's claims his gizmo can do. The problem is serious mountain climbers can't come to any kinda consensus on the virtues of such products. So why even fiddle with the first fella til he can put his money were his mouth is and let us play with his special gizmo??

Us mountain climbers is an odd bunch I guess. Anyway, I do recommend the Ayre to wet your whistle if your ever in the neighborhood.
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Myths and misconceptions. The lifeblood of the industry. What ever it takes to make a guy happy they should go for. If that means spending exorbitant amounts of money, this makes for a whole lot of winners. Victory for all! Anyways sounds like that fella might be on to something. :)
 
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