Air Tight vs VTL vs Triode Corp of Japan

a.wayne - I'm speaking of brands that people want/buy. I know fully of what you're speaking about regarding different tube amps and utilization - I've owned them all. [emoji6] But I'm looking at a brand.

VAC - local to me, but I prefer the old VAC sound and they've gone a bit crazy with pricing.
BAT - music direct now.
LAMM - AMAZING - but kind of pricey
Kondo - see above


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Mike said:
In the world of tubes, today it seems there is ARC and then...everyone else. I'm trying to figure out who is tops and desired in the "everyone else" category.


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Mike-You started off this thread by asking about 3 particular tube gear manufacturers and asked which one had the "classic tube sound." I think that led some people to believe that you had narrowed down your choices to the original 3 you mentioned. I guess you really need to define what you mean when you say "classic tube sound." Classic from the 1950s, 1960s, or some later period? Classic sound of a push-pull amp using triodes, pentodes, or tetrodes? Classic SE sound using 300B, 211, or 845 tubes? Do you want modern day tube bass extension and slam with extended high frequency response or are you looking for something on the mushy side of the bass spectrum and rolled off on top that still manages to sound euphonic?
 
mep said:
Mike-You started off this thread by asking about 3 particular tube gear manufacturers and asked which one had the "classic tube sound." I think that led some people to believe that you had narrowed down your choices to the original 3 you mentioned. I guess you really need to define what you mean when you say "classic tube sound." Classic from the 1950s, 1960s, or some later period? Classic sound of a push-pull amp using triodes, pentodes, or tetrodes? Classic SE sound using 300B, 211, or 845 tubes? Do you want modern day tube bass extension and slam with extended high frequency response or are you looking for something on the mushy side of the bass spectrum and rolled off on top that still manages to sound euphonic?
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I find a lot of the modern tube amps sound real close to solid state. If you're going to go that route - than why bother with tubes and the fuss and muss? I'm speaking of classic tube sound - like Shindo, Jadis, etc.

What I know about Air Tight is that some of their amps sound more modern and others like the ATM-3 have that classic tube sound. Good mix there.

I like the tube sound of the old CJ amp I had, the older classic VAC amps, Shindo, etc.

Different strokes...




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I'd say Vac is the "hot" tube brand right now. I didn't mention it because you have already owned and sold them.
 
Mike said:
I find a lot of the modern tube amps sound real close to solid state. If you're going to go that route - than why bother with tubes and the fuss and muss? I'm speaking of classic tube sound - like Shindo, Jadis, etc.

What I know about Air Tight is that some of their amps sound more modern and others like the ATM-3 have that classic tube sound. Good mix there.

I like the tube sound of the old CJ amp I had, the older classic VAC amps, Shindo, etc.

Different strokes...




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I never thought of Jadis as having the "classic tube sound." My definition of "modern tube amps" is an amplifier that has bass extension and definition that comes closer to the sound of the better SS amps (although no one should say that current tube amps on the market can reproduce the bottom two octaves the same as a great SS amp) as well as having extended high frequency reproduction while simultaneously having a noise floor which rivals the best of SS. But (and this is a big but), the tube amp still does the holographic effect with instruments and voices in a way that still eludes SS along with reproducing the complete palette of harmonics from every instrument that also escapes SS.
 
Well, I just have to say that I like the aesthetics of some of the Air-Tight amps. I've been researching lately and they came up. They have that 60s metallic green sort of steampunk color and a big ol gold colored meter slapped right in the middle, ah yeah! I also like the looks of the Triode ones too in a different way.
I know, I know it's about sound, but I've never heard a tube set up and would not know if it came up and bit my nose. Although, I may have to make sure I have bandages for my nose, because that may happen before long! :) I just had to say something about the aesthetics on these as I think they are kind of nice looking. I don't know about the Triodes, but I know I'll never afford the Air-Tights, but they are still pretty. I don't know that I would ever want to get involved in tubes, but I would not mind hearing some for giggles.
Just sayin.
 
Dear mep,

Thank you for the comment. But I just think of it as "that's what makes horse racing.. I don't see why anyone would be sensitive to criticism of one's preferred equipment.

One man's "just soft, a bit laid back, a bit tame sounding" is my sonic perfection! : )
 
CPP said:
yep, $58,000 is nuts for an amp.
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It does sound great and has won some awards - even my own for best of show at CES 2014, but a KT88/6SN7 just doesn't make me want to jump up and down to pay that kind of money. Maybe for a 211 Kondo Kagura. The 211 is very special, probably my all around favorite tube. The KT88 is good, and I prefer it over the KT120, but holy cow there are loads of great sounding KT88 amps for a lot less - like a sweet sounding pair of 275 mk6's (KT88/12AX7/12AT7).

And from what I've heard, the KT150 is a better tube sonically than the KT88. Of course a badly implemented KT150 amp will sound worse than a excellent KT88 amp....but speaking in general terms, I quite like the KT150. I love what Nick has done with his Doshi v3 amps to take full advantage of the KT150 tube.


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Well someone must be buying and paying for those yearly re toobs, SOTA anything was never cheap and will never be cheap or affordable.
 
Mike said:
It does sound great and has won some awards - even my own for best of show at CES 2014, but a KT88/6SN7 just doesn't make me want to jump up and down to pay that kind of money. Maybe for a 211 Kondo Kagura. The 211 is very special, probably my all around favorite tube. The KT88 is good, and I prefer it over the KT120, but holy cow there are loads of great sounding KT88 amps for a lot less - like a sweet sounding pair of 275 mk6's (KT88/12AX7/12AT7).

And from what I've heard, the KT150 is a better tube sonically than the KT88. Of course a badly implemented KT150 amp will sound worse than a excellent KT88 amp....but speaking in general terms, I quite like the KT150. I love what Nick has done with his Doshi v3 amps to take full advantage of the KT150 tube.


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KT88s are nice as you have both NOS and new options like EATs that are REALLY good (and really expensive). You're stuck with 1 tube on KT150s. Honestly, that Vac doesn't impress me much- and the biasing thing isn't that important. A much simpler circuit will likely sound better for far less $ and the pricing is whack. I feel the same way about ARC 750s and the big VTLs.

I was looking at Audiogon last night in the tube amp department...most interesting to me are the Nagra P/P 845s and perhaps the set of Shindo Sinfonias (Matt @ PPA also has a used pair). BAT Rex and EAR 890 are other interesting P/P options.
 
Viva (from Italy) is another tube amp company worth considering. Only occasionally reviewed but almost always very positively IIRC. They usually show (Profundo Audio) at Newport.
 
I would suggest checking out NAT audio from Serbia. From factory direct they retail at 40% of the RRP, and the Tiangle Art's Tim Vu sells them in the US.

The entry level NAT pre is rated 2 in Germany, at 7k EUR rrp, next to Ypsilon's 23k rrp. Their top line Magnetostat SE is rated 1 by those who have owned high level Kondos, next only to Wavac. I know someone who has owned Lamm, VTL 7.5 mk IIIs, VTL siegfrieds, Einstein, and loves NAT much more. That is what he ended up with for the long run.

The NAT transmitter, which are SET valve mono blocks, 120w each, class A, were rated 1 in Germany, and retailed only at 16k EUR. They are 3rd in Line, with Magma and Magma SE at the top. They also do lower wattage amps, going down to 30w. The power amps have only one giant tube, as big as jug, to avoid the imbalance caused by different tubes going out of sync.

I have had a demo, their separation, dynamics, and bass will make ARC sound flat. The only thing is that their style is transparent, not as airy as ARC or Jadis, nor as euphonic. They are low noise, low distortion, clean, almost like SS. Jadis sounded distorted and muggy in comparison but is also beautiful
 
Problem with brands like Viva and NAT and New Audio Frontiers is they have very limited dealer network and aftermarket support in USA, so any needed repairs is likely going to involve a trip back to home country (Serbia and Italy) and with very few dealers if you're amp is gone for 2 months for repairs, unlikely you will have a dealer who will give you a substitute amp while your unit is being repaired...
 
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