What's the latest new DAC chip and what characteristics make them special?

I have to agree with Ken, when Lumin comes out with a newer version of their S1 using the ES9038Pro DACs it should be very worthy of consideration.
 
Now I can only speak in generalities and I have not heard the latest crop, but I found the earlier generation DACS like the ubiquitous Burr-Brown PCM1704/1792 and the AKM 4397s as implemented in MY APL NWO-1 and select Esoteric DACs and players more musical than other implementations of the ESS Sabre DACs. YMMV.......

Kerry
 
Musicfirst said:
Now I can only speak in generalities and I have not heard the latest crop, but I found the earlier generation DACS like the ubiquitous Burr-Brown PCM1704/1792 and the AKM 4397s as implemented in MY APL NWO-1 and select Esoteric DACs and players more musical than other implementations of the ESS Sabre DACs. YMMV.......

Kerry
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I have to agree. The McIntosh MCD1100 is the best ES9018 Sabre32 implementation I have heard. Within the playback constraints of the older McIntosh MDA1000, I much prefer the MDA1000 for its musicality and better depth of presence though. The older McIntosh DAC sounds better musically.

Whereby, the 9018 and other Sabres in that generation, appear to trade-up resolution with brightness in varying degrees. That brightness masks that musical depth of presence, much more-so than the older Burr Browns, IMO.

The McIntosh MDA1000 consists of a multi stage Cirrus Logic CS8416 + 8 X Burr Brown PCM1704 + Burr Brown OP2134 + Burr Brown PGA2310 ladders. Arguably the best DAC McIntosh has ever made, probably one of the best multi-stage implementations in existence. Apparently Accuphase have made multi-stage DACs like this also.

The new ESS 9038 Pro will be interesting if implemented well into product. But the last thing I want to see is a world of product built entirely on ESS Sabre chips.
 
Based on what I know on both the ESS 9038 pro, and the AKM4497, the better chip will be based on the application. Also on personal tastes. The ESS chip has several technological advances to clean up jitter, and make it more immune to dirty power, board layouts and all of that. It also has the ability to customize the filters. It's also a much better performer technically. It's a more advanced chip, and it's going to cost several times the price of the AK4497.

The AK4497 has a 1Bit DSD bypass mode. So if used with an external upsampling engine such as HQplayer, it has the advantage of being able to bypass the internal SDM/SRC algorithms. AKM has also put much more effort in making filters that sound more natural and tube like. The "Velvet sound" filters. Based on hearing the AK4490 in a very good implementation, they do sound very nice.

No matter what chip is used, these 2 chips are by far the best SDM chips we have seen yet. IMO they are going to put an end the recent resurgence of R-2R DAC's
 
So do you think existing product with ESS9018 DACs will survive the test of time or will they be irrelevantly e-wasted and forgotten about in years to come?

I find this relevant to the future fate of their next generation also, possibly the consumer treatment of DAC values in general...

If that is the case, there is probably no market future for high value DACs and digital stacks.

That could result in a common chip SDK in all brands without implementation variation....?
 
Mivera Audio said:
Based on what I know on both the ESS 9038 pro, and the AKM4497, the better chip will be based on the application. Also on personal tastes. The ESS chip has several technological advances to clean up jitter, and make it more immune to dirty power, board layouts and all of that. It also has the ability to customize the filters. It's also a much better performer technically. It's a more advanced chip, and it's going to cost several times the price of the AK4497.

The AK4497 has a 1Bit DSD bypass mode. So if used with an external upsampling engine such as HQplayer, it has the advantage of being able to bypass the internal SDM/SRC algorithms. AKM has also put much more effort in making filters that sound more natural and tube like. The "Velvet sound" filters. Based on hearing the AK4490 in a very good implementation, they do sound very nice.

No matter what chip is used, these 2 chips are by far the best SDM chips we have seen yet. IMO they are going to put an end the recent resurgence of R-2R DAC's
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So has anyone designed DACs with the ESS 9038 pro or the AKM4497?
 
Musicfirst said:
So has anyone designed DACs with the ESS 9038 pro or the AKM4497?
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I'm sure every manufacturer out there that is currently using an ESS chip has plans to use the new chips. So far the only one that has announced using it is Ayre with the QX-5. There's also a new Sabre chip called the 9028 pro. It's not near as good as the 9038, but it offers the advantage of being a direct drop in replacement for the 9018, without re-engineering the DAC. So I'm sure tons of DAC's will be using it.

As for the AK4497, I'm sure it will be Esoteric who releases the first DAC using it. One thing I don't like about AKM is they are aggressively playing catch up with ESS, and are upgrading their chips far too fast. It was only just over a year ago since the ak4490 was released. It's very hard to make a DAC with strong resale value if you must redesign it from the ground up every 2 years to keep up with technology. ESS on the other hand released the 9018 8 years ago, and there's still top DAC's using it.
 
Mivera Audio said:
I'm sure every manufacturer out there that is currently using an ESS chip has plans to use the new chips. So far the only one that has announced using it is Ayre with the QX-5. There's also a new Sabre chip called the 9028 pro. It's not near as good as the 9038, but it offers the advantage of being a direct drop in replacement for the 9018, without re-engineering the DAC. So I'm sure tons of DAC's will be using it.
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So does this mean one could literally pull their 9018 DAC chips out of their DAC/player and plus in a 9028 pro, or is their more to it? What would one expect from such a replacement?

Kerry
 
Musicfirst said:
So does this mean one could literally pull their 9018 DAC chips out of their DAC/player and plus in a 9028 pro, or is their more to it? What would one expect from such a replacement?

Kerry
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From what I understand yes. If you know how to drag solder SMD chips, anyone should be able to upgrade their DAC. However I can imagine most DAC manufacturers will make you buy a whole new unit.



Or use a hot air gun with solder paste:

 
Steve said:
So do you think existing product with ESS9018 DACs will survive the test of time or will they be irrelevantly e-wasted and forgotten about in years to come?

I find this relevant to the future fate of their next generation also, possibly the consumer treatment of DAC values in general...

If that is the case, there is probably no market future for high value DACs and digital stacks.

.hat could result in a common chip SDK in all brands without implementation variation....?
Click to expand...


The 9018 has been discontinued. So it won't be long before DAC manufacturers will have to use the upgraded drop in replacement 9028 Pro. But good thing about ESS is, it will probably be 8 years or so before we see a successor.
 
Another thing, if you don't know how to SMD solder, you can always take it to a local electronics shop with SMD experience. I used to do that before I got my hot air gun. To swap a chip like this they would charge me around $20. It would take him 5 minutes to swap it.
 
I have also heard many designs using the current ESS Sabre DACs which sound overly bright and analytical, while some others sound excellent. The results achieved are highly dependent upon other design factors and execution as is also true for most other high end audio gear.
 
How significant of an upgrade is the 9028Pro from the 9018? Certainly DAC hotrodding is a temptation down the road if I am still hanging onto the McIntosh MCD1100, also the MVP891.

However, as Audio Bill rightly points out, it's all in the implementation and certainly McIntosh factored/tuned the 9018 into its product design. So even though the 9028Pro is an SMD drop-in, it may not actually be a beneficial hot-rodded upgrade??

Similarly if you compare the MCD1100 to the MVP891, the sound is quite different due to the 9018 implementation.....4x2 vs 8x1. The 8x1 is not bad for HT use and I do have AUX-in full analogue passthru to compare the difference between it and the Burr Browns in the Denon AVP-A1HDA. (Not even a McIntosh MX can do this!) But I rarely do switch while watching a movie because I like the sound of the Burr Browns more in the older Denon flagship implementation.

While the universal player does everything universally good, critical balanced 2-ch listening on the MVP891 (which utilises 2/8 of the 9018 DAC), is fatiguing and not something I bother with. The exception maybe for novelty/curiosity reasons eg. Multi-ch SACD playback.

As embracing ESS DACs in the future, (and I've had my share of the passing generation in the above and toying around with the two current iFi products), I want more of what the MDA1000 still embraces and magically delivers. Chord Dave by account also seems to promise that and some...
 
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