New amp to drive Sonus Faber Olympica III - Hegel? Coda? Mark Levinson?

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Boris99

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Hello everybody!
I found here on Audioshark lot of opinions about points of my current question.
That's why I'd like to ask some advices.
Some time ago I bought above speakers (1st generation) with good discount because new version Nova coming.
I listen it rarely using my current amps - Luxman 590 and Parasound P5/2250. Was not satisfied. I felt that Luxman has not enough power to control bass. Also sound was too soft and sweet because both - Luxman and Sonus have similar character. As for Parasound - too simple for SF for sure.
I'd like to use SF in my main setap now.
So, I need new amp!
I prefer SS integrated amps - less boxes and wires. And not too heavy - over 30 kgs (66 lbs) are not for my waist already.
SF OIII - 4Ohms/ 90 dB - do not need giant power but need for "enough" power because impedance dropping down to 2.7 Ohms. In fact there are 3 Ohms :-) Also, SF OIII is perfect to reproduce voices but not transparent and detailed enough on highs.
I listen some amps in stores but unfortunately not paired with Sonus Faber.
However. my quarterfinal list -
- Coda CSiB
- Hegel H590 (BTW, I found big distance between them and H390 when drivinf big Revel speakers)
- Mark Levinson 5805 (nice signature but don't sure that this new ML is powerful enough)
So, I will be very grateful for any opinions/experience which may help me for my semifinal or even final list. Finally I will try to listen candidates in my own room with my SF.
Thanks in advance!
Boris
 
I also have Luxman Class A integrated and I can relate, although I am currently enjoying Harbeth, not Sonus Faber speakers.

You can also try Bryston. I ran various Bryston amps with a few different Sonus Faber speakers and it was a very well balanced combo playing on each other's strengths.

One example I can give you is the Sonus Faber Elipsa with the Bryston amps is in my theater room from some years ago.

The sound is close to what I think you are trying to achieve? Neutral response with crisp transients and without the sterile presentation?


 
SF usually underlines voicing frequencies- sweet like Opera. I’d like more neutral sound reproduction amplifier which includes well controlled bass, sweet voices and crystal highs :-)
BTW I use Luxman 590 AxII and Harbeth HL7-3 - perfect combo!
BTW2 very cool HT room
 
From the 3 amps you mention I'd use the 590, very strong, transparent and clear, should be a good match with your speakers.

Coda uses no feedback and I find the low bass lacking some detail and less midbass kick than I like.

The 5805 is a very nice sounding integrated, I prefer the overall sound to the 590, however, I'm afraid your assumption would be correct regarding power. Even the larger 585 struggled with Revel Salon 2 when pushed.

I've herd the 590 power some speakers like KEF Ref 5, Monitor Audio Gold and Platnum towers, I forget the model number and Revel 328b, the 590 had no issue. It was impressive to hear how the 590 handledthe flagship Ref 5.

I agree, the 590 is a good improvement over the 390.
 
I would say Hegel 590. Dual mono design. It’s one of our favorites with the Franco Serblin speakers.


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Interesting. I listen Abbey Road Deluxe album from Qobuz using H590 and ML 5805 with Revel speakers at the same time. Speakers reproduced some hiss whith Hegel while ML didn’t. Manager said that is because Hegel is crystalline detailed and reproduce this hiss from record. But I don’t sure. Another reason this amplifier produces own hiss, isn’t it?
 
Boris99 said:
Interesting. I listen Abbey Road Deluxe album from Qobuz using H590 and ML 5805 with Revel speakers at the same time. Speakers reproduced some hiss whith Hegel while ML didn’t. Manager said that is because Hegel is crystalline detailed and reproduce this hiss from record. But I don’t sure. Another reason this amplifier produces own hiss.
Click to expand...

It digs deeper into the recording. The amp doesn’t create hiss.


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Give the Hegel a listen with no music playing and see if the hiss is there.

The 5805 is a very good sounding amp, providing very good inner detail, listen to the blatt of brass instruments, the highs are there yet very smooth. I've only heard it with Audio Physics speakers though, where there seems to be a good synergy. I just don't know if it could handle the load your speakers will have.

Boris99 said:
Interesting. I listen Abbey Road Deluxe album from Qobuz using H590 and ML 5805 with Revel speakers at the same time. Speakers reproduced some hiss whith Hegel while ML didn’t. Manager said that is because Hegel is crystalline detailed and reproduce this hiss from record. But I don’t sure. Another reason this amplifier produces own hiss.
Click to expand...
 
Don’t you think that Hegel is surgically sterile? Or yes, and this is exactly what SF needs to be more neutral?

I admit that before your advice, I was more sympathetic to Coda. May be because Coda CSIB is about $2K cheaper :-)
 
Hegel, is, neutral and don't sugar coat things. It could be the thing to wake up the SF though. It would be nice if you could get a listen in your home.

Don't get me wrong Coda is a good value. I do have one of their CSX. Beautiful midrange. The criticisms I have keep it from being my main amp.

Any other amps you have access to?

Boris99 said:
Don’t you think that Hegel is surgically sterile? Or yes, and this is exactly what SF needs to be more neutral?

I admit that before your advice, I was more sympathetic to Coda. May be because Coda CSIB is about $2K cheaper :-)
Click to expand...
 
Sure. I concerned to above brands/models because of their midrange price, power, more or less neutral sound. And my idea - SS integrated.
What else to consider? Krell?
Jim Austin (Stereophile May 13,2019) paired Krell K-300i Integrated Amplifier and Sonus Faber Olympica III.
But Mr.Peabody confused me that even more powerful ML 585 "struggled with Revel Salon 2".

I keep streaming only as source. I'd like to have two boxes maximum - integrated amplifier and streamer-DAC. Lyngdorf digital already replaced Luxman to drive Harbeths
 
You were considering Coda already, you could get There TS power amp and 07x preamplifier. I guarantee the TS will drive the SF and the 07x is a stellar preamp, don't let the smaller chassis fool you. You will need a streamer but the Coda combo will sound great, have the power and be in the range you were looking to spend, maybe a bit over budget depending on Streamer.

The CSI integrated is 400x2 into 8 ohms and doubles into 4, it would get you a good portion of the above combo for almost half the price then buy a good streamer.

The Krell is also very neutral, the 590 I'd say is a better overall performer but neither sugar coat things.

I'm sorry to have derailed your search or cause confusion. Here's my ranking from neutral to warm;
1. 590
2. ML 5805
3. CSI

The comments I made on the Coda are minor, I still enjoy listening to my CSX. The CSX has the best midrange but my Levinson amp is more lively sounding. Coda uses no feedback which gives the gear a more natural sound but the bass has a full or more bloom to it. It may be something you' like, many do.

I get the impression you really like the 5805 and I can understand that, I think it sounds great as well. Can you workout a deal to try it with your speakers or return if you feel it doesn't have enough power? It's not so much the power as you will need the amp to produce current when your SF begins to drop in impedance.

Here's some info from the review in Stereophile, the amp section is based off the #534 which is an excellent amp IMO.
The No.5805's fully discrete, direct-coupled, class-AB-biased amplifier section is claimed capable of 125Wpc into an 8-ohm loudspeaker load and almost twice that into a 4-ohm load. The single mains transformer, with separate output windings for each channel, is rated at 500+VA, enough current to make the amplifier "stable" into 2 ohms, according to the manufacturer. The voltage-gain topology, which the manufacturer says is "descended from" Levinson's midlevel No.534 power amplifier, is mated to an output stage featuring eight transistors, two of them operating in class-A. Output-stage bias is autocorrected in response to temperature, which I think is important. Claimed output impedance is low, about a tenth of an ohm across the audio band.

Mark Levinson specifies the No.5805 as delivering a maximum power of 125Wpc into 8 ohms (21dBW). At our usual definition of clipping (ie, when the percentage of THD+noise in the amplifier's output reaches 1%), with continuous drive in both channels, the No.5805 exceeded that spec, delivering 133.5Wpc into 8 ohms (21.25dBW, fig.4). With both channels driven into 4 ohms, the amplifier clipped at 210Wpc (20.2dBW, fig.5), and into 2 ohms with one channel driven, it clipped at 370W (19.6dBW, fig.6).

* So the 5805 produces some current, I just have not personally heard it on difficult speakers. The 5805 isa newer model than the 585.
 
Thank you for analysis I will listen Hegel with Sonus Faber tomorrow. If I will like it then I will take t it.
I listened Coda CSIB driving Legacy Focus. I don’t know usual signature of above speakers but I felt this pair as dark, no transparent and detailed highs.
As for 5805 - I think it is not enough for SF which difficult loading.
Yesterday I read reviews about efforts to drive SF. Guys used Ayre 5 twenty pre + mono blocks which are real high-end.
They got result using vertical bi-amping only. So, difficult job to drive SF. Not for 5805. Separated 5302/5206 are more powerful but double priced in ML 5000 line

Update
Same lesson again and again: always try new component in own room and setup.
I tried SF (it was model which placed between OlyIII and Amati) and Hegel H590 in specially prepared dealer’s room. The sound was absolutely different compared to one which I listened when paired Hegel and Revel. First, something like very light veil. It means Hegel was comfortable and not sharp. But not so transparent and detailed on high frequencies. Second, lack of real bass (!) on well-known rock composition like AC/DC Thunderstruck. Manager said that yes, their room hide bass (?).
So, no holiday today:-(
 
Legacy uses a very good ribbon tweeter, something was off if no good high end extension and detail. What was the source? If Coda is using the same output devices for the CBI as in the #8 I can understand the dark background. They don't use those in the TS power amp but it will still have the Coda sound.

Keep in mind brands like Hegel and Krell have a very tight grip on bass, it should have detail with weight but it won't add anything. Not saying it's your situation, sometimes listeners confuse the tight control on the bass with a lack of bass. A lot of Rock, like AC/DC doesn't have goodbass anyway, and, a lot of compression is used in the recording process which adds a higher noise floor.

Do you listen to primarily Rock? Your speakers aren't what comes to my mind for Rock&Roll. If primarly Rock, maybe think of a speaker like Legacy or JBL. Both will do other genres but have the sensitivity and dynamics for Rock.
 
Depending on your budget, I'd recommend a Constellation Argo or Inspiration 1.0 integrated amp. Will drive any load at any impedenace flawlessly and never break a sweat.

Sounds identical cold or when fully warmed up.

Review in TAS by Neil Gader here: Constellation Inspiration Integrated 1.0 - The Absolute Sound

Sounds absolutely amazing, when driving anything...all the time. They are also super reliable and durable. There is a reason you never see these come up for sale, used. Because owners that have them....never sell them.

Either that, or a DarTZeel CTH-8550. For the same reasons.

Job done.
 
Big B said:
I wonder if the Boulder 866 fits in this search. Mike might know about that.
Click to expand...

The 866 has the new Boulder sound. Sounds great. Definitely one of the more popular ones.


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Mike said:
The 866 has the new Boulder sound. Sounds great. Definitely one of the more popular o
Click to expand...

Do you think Boulder 866 is power enough for SF OlyIII ? No chance to try with. I see 865 ex- demo. Discount. Even less power.

Puma Cat said:
Depending on your budget, I'd recommend a Constellation Argo or Inspiration 1.0 integrated amp. Will drive any load at any impedenace flawlessly and never break a sweat. …..
Sounds identical cold or when fully warmed up. …..
Either that, or a DarTZeel CTH-8550. For the same reasons. .
Click to expand...

Constellation, Dartzeel, Nagra, Dagostino, Gryphon, MBL,,Ayre…what else?…. Sure there is high society and another budget.
But not about budget for amplifier only. It needs all components incl sources, wires, power supply , room etc on equally high level. Also, enough time and desire to listen music :-) . I haven’t.
Mr Peabody said:
Legacy uses a very good ribbon tweeter, something was off if no good high end extension and detail. What was the source?

Do you listen to primarily Rock? Your speakers aren't what comes to my mind for Rock&Roll. .
Click to expand...

We used McIntosh CD player when testing Hegel and SF.
No, time of passion to rock already far bihind. I listening old rock but this is like nostalgia. Nothing new

Generally I know above Coda and Hegel only as middle league, high power AB integrated amps for difficult speakers.
 
In my opinion the McIntosh CD player was the falt of any missing highs with the Coda..

I was looking at the Constellation 1.0 and read a review in Soundstage, what was interesting the writer had a Hegel 590 as his reference and also recently reviewed the Sim Audio 700i. So he made comments comparing the 3. You might want to take a look at the 700i. His speakers were KEF Ref 3, to my ears the Rf's are some warm like the SF.

You might also visit the shop with the Coda to have another listen, just request a different brand CD player. Ifyou like the Coda sound you can get separates for less than a 590, the 07x pre & TS power amp. I have no doubt the TS will drive the SF. Going this way you wouldn't have the DAC as with th 590..
 
Ok. Will try Diablo 120/300 with SF and Sim Audio 700i (previous version) with Wilson. Will give you report
 
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