KEF Reference 1 - OMG

Adrian Low

Adrian Low

New member
Joined
Sep 4, 2014
Messages
205
Location
Toronto Canada
So Richard, agent for KEF, dropped by yesterday for a visit. Ostensibly. "I've got one of the few samples of the upcoming Reference 1s, but have not been able to hear them in a really good system...". I'm hooked! Richard wrestled them into the store and we unpacked them.

HOLY! Absolutely gorgeous finish. Pictures I've seen so far just don't do them any justice. Stunning gloss rosewood with laminated aluminum/resin composite front baffle. These stand mounted speakers are absolutely gorgeous in their simple, modern and clean lines.

We fired them up with Wyred 4 Sound mPre/mAMPs and Dac2 DSD SE. HOLY $H!T!!! How do these little things sound so good? And where did all this bass come from? Absolutely stunned. We listen in shock, marvelling in the musicality. Then we decided to bring them into the large room. After all, there's no way these stand mounted speakers will fill our back media room... 16 x 25 with 10' ceiling (actually 30'!! ceiling... we're allowed only to use acoustic tiles which are essentially sonically transparent for all bass and mid frequencies). The Naim system is already connected so that's what we use.

Again, WOW!. This time, the soundstage and image fills the front, effortlessly. Deep bass from about 40 Hz is strong, goes lower but it loses some of the authority (might be the Naim amp though, and we weren't missing it much). No real complaints, to be totally honest. The speakers are truly extraordinary. Not only do they do all the audiophile buzz words, they have soul.

I think KEF has created another big hit.
 
http://www.kef.com/html/us/showroom/hi-fi_series/THE_REFERENCE/range/index.html

kef_reference_5a.jpg


kef_reference_3a.jpg
 
Last edited:
I heard the Blade 2s today and they were one of the best sounding setups at the show.
 
I've got a set of the LS-50's and really love them. Hoping I'll get to hear the Ref 1's at RMAF. Do those who've heard them think they are $6K better than the LS-50's?
 
MiTT said:
I've got a set of the LS-50's and really love them. Hoping I'll get to hear the Ref 1's at RMAF. Do those who've heard them think they are $6K better than the LS-50's?
Click to expand...

I haven't heard the Ref 1's but I have heard the LS-50 and comparing them to the 201/2s the LS-50 hold their own.
 
MiTT said:
I've got a set of the LS-50's and really love them. Hoping I'll get to hear the Ref 1's at RMAF. Do those who've heard them think they are $6K better than the LS-50's?
Click to expand...

Performance vs price increase is rarely linear, but in a word, yes, the REF 1 is a lot better than the LS50, in my opinion. I've always been somewhat biased against expensive (over $2,000) small bookshelf speakers, with few exceptions (Proac Response 2 is a great speaker as an example). While some mini monitors in the $20k range have amazed me with their imaging and soundstage strengths, I could never get over the fact that you can buy full range speakers for the same money, many of them that can do the same disappearing act. My office manager, Andrew, has to constantly remind me that many people live in smaller spaces but don't want to give up on quality, hence the high quality, expensive minis. Still, I argue, look at the footprint!!! They are basically the same. And in order for the minis to disappear and do their magic, they have to be away from walls as well. No different than floor standing speakers. I was blind to the very real psychological aesthetic of a mini...on a pair of stands, they do look small despite the same floor space. Bass, in my opinion, is still an issue regardless. You can't get mid and low frequencies out of a small speaker.

The REF1 does. It still can't plumb the depths like a good floor stander, but it seems to, and mid bass is very convincing, even in a large room like ours. The trade off is sensitivity at 85dB. You need a decent power amplifier.

Caveats - I have not auditioned in my own rooms/systems, some of the truly full range speakers like the latest Golden Ear, Definitive Tech with built-in subs, so I can't compare those. But given the requirement for a smaller speaker, (at least psychologically and aesthetically), these babies are quite amazing.

- Soundstage width seemed to be as wide as the speakers. We did not spend much time playing with set up as the rep was under some time constraints. This didn't really bother me too much as I'm confident that with some tweaking we can get it to expand beyond the speakers. I am aware that theory says real stereo does not have this capability, that if you get sound outside the boundary of the speakers, it's due to room reflections etc. However, it's a nice illusion to have :)

- We did not get a chance to try many electronic options other than the Wyred 4 Sound and Naim. Would love to hear the speakers with Ayre, McIntosh and even the mighty D'Agostinos! Still, the Ref1 sounded magical, appealing to both the head and the heart.
 
I owned the LS50 anniversary edition speakers. There is much to admire about them, but at the end of the day, there is a lot there that simply isn't there. The sins of the LS50 are sins of omission and not commission. No matter what people tell you, they have no real bass and they are light in the mid and upper bass as well. Play them next to a truly full range speaker and you will quickly understand what I'm saying.
 
mep said:
I owned the LS50 anniversary edition speakers. There is much to admire about them, but at the end of the day, there is a lot there that simply isn't there. The sins of the LS50 are sins of omission and not commission. No matter what people tell you, they have no real bass and they are light in the mid and upper bass as well. Play them next to a truly full range speaker and you will quickly understand what I'm saying.
Click to expand...
i didnt see them missing all that you hear from them, but i agree in the bass and upper bass and very set back mids. i sat and listened to them side by side all day with the r300's and i bought the r300 that same day. and i loved the r300's for awhile but the soundstage was a little off on them. it was there but seemed things were out of place compared to other speakers. everything always leaned to the left no matter how im positioned them, could have been the amp i was using but i changed amps a few times while they were here. but the overall sound was awesome for the price that was paid, and i sold them but i wish i kept them around. these ref 1's look like the r300 in a suit of armor.lol.
but they are pretty and i liked the r300's so much i would love to hear them. the big kef refs are some of the best speakers i ever heard, and i liked them much better than the blades.
 
mep said:
I owned the LS50 anniversary edition speakers. There is much to admire about them, but at the end of the day, there is a lot there that simply isn't there. The sins of the LS50 are sins of omission and not commission. No matter what people tell you, they have no real bass and they are light in the mid and upper bass as well. Play them next to a truly full range speaker and you will quickly understand what I'm saying.
Click to expand...

That's for sure. But the little LS50's mated with a nice pair of subs can do wonders. But it's hard to out perform a good full range.
 
CPP said:
That's for sure. But the little LS50's mated with a nice pair of subs can do wonders. But it's hard to out perform a good full range.
Click to expand...

I had the LS50s mated to Def Tech Ref subs which have 14" woofers and 1800 watt amps. I was driving the LS50s with a Krell KSA-250. I had the LS50s sitting on custom made Sound Anchor stands which were massive. I can promise you that whatever bass the LS50s are capable of, I could bring it out. Trust me, I understand why some people love the LS50s, I certainly loved them for what they did bring to the table. It's just that I know what they didn't bring to the table and that was what left me unsatisfied over the long run. The funny thing is that we have some audiophiles who claim they don't really like bass and want to avoid it as much as having to spend time with their mother-in-law whom they like less than bass. On the other hand, we have audiophiles who don't really know what a proper bass foundation sounds like and they are confused and think the LS50s are somehow pulling off a bass miracle which I can assure you they aren't.
 
mep said:
I had the LS50s mated to Def Tech Ref subs which have 14" woofers and 1800 watt amps. I was driving the LS50s with a Krell KSA-250. I had the LS50s sitting on custom made Sound Anchor stands which were massive. I can promise you that whatever bass the LS50s are capable of, I could bring it out. Trust me, I understand why some people love the LS50s, I certainly loved them for what they did bring to the table. It's just that I know what they didn't bring to the table and that was what left me unsatisfied over the long run. The funny thing is that we have some audiophiles who claim they don't really like bass and want to avoid it as much as having to spend time with their mother-in-law whom they like less than bass. On the other hand, we have audiophiles who don't really know what a proper bass foundation sounds like and they are confused and think the LS50s are somehow pulling off a bass miracle which I can assure you they aren't.
Click to expand...


This is exactly what I wondered about the LS50's. Many just say they are a good speaker but wont reiterate with the details, as in politely saying yes they are good, but...... Others gush to the point of me thinking that I've lived with some really good stand mounts, so where did Kef get the pixie dust from. Matching subs brings with it a god awful load of problems too unless you fluke the set-up & have a very good room from the start. I don't doubt they are an exceptional "bookshelf" speaker, for the price, but all have caveats.
 
Petro85 said:
i didnt see them missing all that you hear from them, but i agree in the bass and upper bass and very set back mids. i sat and listened to them side by side all day with the r300's and i bought the r300 that same day. and i loved the r300's for awhile but the soundstage was a little off on them. it was there but seemed things were out of place compared to other speakers. everything always leaned to the left no matter how im positioned them, could have been the amp i was using but i changed amps a few times while they were here. but the overall sound was awesome for the price that was paid, and i sold them but i wish i kept them around. these ref 1's look like the r300 in a suit of armor.lol.
but they are pretty and i liked the r300's so much i would love to hear them. the big kef refs are some of the best speakers i ever heard, and i liked them much better than the blades.
Click to expand...

See...this is where things get tricky for me as well. I've owned LS-50s; loved them for what they were...but then I'm a Brit guy, mostly through and through (Harbeth, PMC, KEF). But like Petro, I put R300s side by side with them...



...kept the R300s :)



Some people asked me, if I thought they were "better"; I didn't. I thought they were equally outstanding...at what they did; but that they were different. The R300s, IMO, gave you better bass...without losing, what the LS-50s did well. Now...it's not whopping bass, like a Dyn stand-mount; but it's good, solid, punchy bass...for a Brit, that still gets the mids just right.

Petro said the Ref 1s, look like R300s wrapped in a suit of armor? I couldn't agree more; and maybe it's because I thought so much of the R300...at the price...that I really wonder, can the Ref 1 be "worth" 4x the price.

That's kind of why I'm leaning Ref 3s; because then you at least get a floor-stander. Then again...I'm not sure I can swing, the 13 big-ones :(
 
Last edited:
Hi CD, the Ref 1 is quite a lot better than the R300. As much as I am enamoured of the performance and value the R series offers, the Ref 1 is better. Deep bass and effortless power is better with the R500-R900, but from mid bass on up (about 35-40hz up) there is no contest. Most obvious is clarity. You hear more, as if a slightly dirty window you never noticed before has been removed. Highs are great, though I'm not sure if the slightly dry extreme top is due to the Naim we used. Will have to listen more when the speakers finally ship.
 
Adrian Low said:
Hi CD, the Ref 1 is quite a lot better than the R300. As much as I am enamoured of the performance and value the R series offers, the Ref 1 is better. Deep bass and effortless power is better with the R500-R900, but from mid bass on up (about 35-40hz up) there is no contest. Most obvious is clarity. You hear more, as if a slightly dirty window you never noticed before has been removed. Highs are great, though I'm not sure if the slightly dry extreme top is due to the Naim we used. Will have to listen more when the speakers finally ship.
Click to expand...

Yeah AL; I have no doubt the Ref 1s are "better". After all...they better be, right? :)

It's just that whole law-of-diminishing-returns conundrum...lol. R300s are a paltry $1800; Ref 1s, a formidable $7500.

Somewhere, I did a spec-to-spec; on R-700s vs. Ref 3s. I'll try to find it.
 
Last edited:
CDLehner said:
Yeah AL; I have no doubt the Ref 1s are "better". After all...they better be, right? :)

It's just that whole law-of-diminishing-returns conundrum...lol. R300s are a paltry $1800; Ref 1s, a formidable $7500.

Somewhere, I did a spec-to-spec; on R-700s vs. Ref 3s. I'll try to find it.
Click to expand...

OK, it eludes me right now; but in a nutshell:

R-700: (2) 6.5" bass drivers, (1) 5" mid, (1) 1" tweeter; 37-45k (-6db)/42-28k (-3db). Sensitivity 89db and maximum output 113db.

Ref 3: same driver sizes (although, of course...different drivers); 28/35/38-45k (-6db)/43-35k (-3db). 87.5db and 113.5.

So...that holds true, with what Adrian is saying; much better HF response...so there's your "removing of the dirty window". As for the better bass response; the numbers don't bare it out as much (though I've never been one, to judge speakers by FR alone...just saying). If anything...it may have mostly to do with porting and crossover (which is 350 on the Ref 3, as opposed to 500 on the R700).

Look...no doubt the Ref is likely a "whole lot" better; but you're talking $1800 vs. 13,000 :whoa:

Now...I know that's what some of you, spend on your Bathroom systems ;) But it's at the outer-edges, for some of us.

All that being said...I'd still love to hear some, next to my FACT 3s; which I dig!
 
I know it's counterintuitive based on the specs. The Ref 1 shouldn't sound as powerful and effortless in the bass areas that it is spec'd for, but it does. The clarity is much better across the board. I'm told that's because the drivers are essentially similar to the Blade 2, though I have no independent verification of that.

The FACT 3 is a wonderful speaker. We've had it in our listening rooms, primarily in the smaller room. I can't comment on clarity etc because it's been too long since we've had it, but the bass is definitely nowhere near as effortless as the Ref 1. In Canada, the Fact 3 costs more than the Ref 1. Again, I can't comment on the rest of the sonic range. Cosmetically, the Ref 1 is definitely better, TO ME! I am a fan of both manufacturers, and they both offer great products. PMC has an amazing story with their success in tier 1 studios.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top