Is anybody discounting phono cartridges any more ?

Joseph R.

Joseph R.

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Apr 24, 2017
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It wasn’t long ago where cartridges were retailing at half or 40% of their list price. Now retailers are selling all cartridges at full suggested retail prices. As if there was a law against discounting cartridges. In addition, phono cartridge manufacturers are selling the same $100 cartridge with a shabata or “line contact” stylus for $700.00, or more. We must be a sorry bunch to accept this situation. Especially when we go for close to a grand and get a mediocre sounding product. I don’t see anything lower than $1,500 that even aproaches the high end in sound quality. In the face of this fiasco, the trend toward moving coil carts is almost exclusive. This futher burdens us with the cost of a pre-preamp. Soundsmith seems to be the only manufacturer producing a real high end moving iron cart (Grado is finally attempting the same thing). And Peter Leaderman raises his prices continuously. They’re already in the stratisphere. I can’t keep up.

Does anyone out there know of a supplier that discounts cartridges ? I just seem to be adding to a very expensive collection of cartridges without getting anywhere. Maybe a better question is; Is there a cart manufacturer that has any interest in producing a good cartridge that a real live human can afford to buy ?
 
Would love to hear some veteran vinylphiles weigh in on this. (I am but a neophyte).

I am really enamored with my Ortofon Cadenza Bronze (which if I recall correctly I received a pretty good deal on via "the cable company") but it's tough to think about the amount of money I need to be putting away with each record to fund its eventual replacement. I found Ortofon's top range MM cart the 2M black really doesn't compare when it comes to musical satisfaction. I mean the much, much more expensive cartridge should offer a lot more but although I love the Cadenza I hate to think that I couldn't be very satisfied with a <$1000 cart.


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Yes Nile, exactly my point. Prices are rising with no regard to sound quality. Goldring is a great example. The designs are staying the same, but the prices are doubling. The $300 1042 is now going for $750 !!! Most of us poor slobs have to pay list price. Don’t know about you guys, but I’m going to try the new $350 Reference Platinum2 Grado. Maybe I’m dreaming, but I can always hope, can’t I ?
 
there are some deals left out there. ive been buying ortofon for years now because you just get more for the money. grados are great for lower prices id keep to the wood body ones like the sonata and such. and any ortofon 2m is a great value. even their quintet line of mc is pretty nice for the price. i ran a ort cadenza black and upgraded to the much more expensive per winfield and it wasnt really worth it. didnt cost me anything to upgrade but was only a slight improvement and some area was a little less than the black. the big name cartridges aside from a few are just out of control expensive now. but there are some deals to still be had.
 
If you like jazz, the Clearaudio Virtuoso and the one above it, are good choices at under $1000. I haven't checked their prices lately, so don't know if they've gone up. Like Nile49, I'm enamored by my Cadenza Bronze, though and listen to it much more than the Clearaudio or the Soundsmith Voice Ebony. I'd also recommend the Dynavector 10X5 (they also have a high output model), as it is the proverbial giant killer. Here's a link...Dynavector-10X5-Cartridge
 
Joseph R. said:
It wasn’t long ago where cartridges were retailing at half or 40% of their list price...
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Are you shooting from the hip or do you have concrete examples? if you can buy a Koetsu at 40% off, you were basically buying it at dealer cost whether it was 30 years go or today. The bigger discrepancy is the street price for Japanese cartridges in japan which are 20-30% less than the US. European makers like Ortofon, Vdh, Benz, et al are more consistent in their world-wide list pricing but you can always go gray market and import it yourself.
 
Koetsu is a bad example, as they were always well above my statue in life. In the last three years I watched the Goldring 1042 go from $350 to $750. Rob are you saying cartridges were always selling for list price ? And why would dealer cost have anything to do with anything ? The manufacturer’s simply increased dealer cost along the way. I did not say who was to blame.

I will be looking for amercan made cartridges in the future.
 
Joseph R. said:
Koetsu is a bad example, as they were always well above my statue in life. In the last three years I watched the Goldring 1042 go from $350 to $750. Rob are you saying cartridges were always selling for list price ? And why would dealer cost have anything to do with anything ? The manufacturer’s simply increased dealer cost along the way. I did not say who was to blame.

I will be looking for amercan made cartridges in the future.
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what example should I use? Im trying to follow your thought process, cartridges are more expensive than they ever were, its a given. I like Goldring but their best days are way behind them IMO. if you polled members here on AS I bet few have ever heard one in a system and fewer yet have ever owned one! As far as American made carts go you have Soundsmith and Grado, one makes a cart that lists for $8,000 the other $12,000, is that what you mean?:rolleyes:
 
still-one said:
I think discussing margins or discounts in open threads is very crass
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With all due respect, it’s funny how you get offended from the buyers point of view. But the retailers and manufacturer’s have no qualms with raising prices constantly. Is that “crass” ?

Don’t get me wrong, everyone is entitled to make a living, but some of us are being shut out from our beloved hobby because of the high prices. I’m sure you will agree, it is getting harder and harder to maintain a credible system with rising prices. I think we should stop ignoring the elephant in the room and say something.
 
Joseph R. said:
With all due respect, it’s funny how you get offended from the buyers point of view. But the retailers and manufacturer’s have no qualms with raising prices constantly. Is that “crass” ?

Don’t get me wrong, everyone is entitled to make a living, but some of us are being shut out from our beloved hobby because of the high prices. I’m sure you will agree, it is getting harder and harder to maintain a credible system with rising prices. I think we should stop ignoring the elephant in the room and say something.
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very much agreed Joe. the prices that are being put on gear these days is completely absurd. they just seem to be going up and up until finally no one buys it, then they make a cheaper model, and say they are doing it for us. lol. most who buy it are buying it because no one else on their block can afford to buy it. Still there are some that have done their homework and really like the product and money is no object. for the most part its really another form of measuring your ....... .
its really the whole chain. the builder wants his money, the distributor wants his money, the dealer wants his money. leaving a product that cost $1500 to build with a $50k pricetag. thats where internet direct sales are taking over, giving you a good deal. the manufacturer makes a little more $$ and the consumer saves a ton, except you cant go hear those products anywhere and if you have a problem theres no dealer to dump them on and say 'fix it". its good and bad that way.

you wont find any dealers who will discuss discounts in public but if you find a product you want there is most likely someone who will give you a discount to undercut another dealer. its just the audio game.
i buy guitars and they are not as uptight about discounts and speaking of them. usually they say on the manufacturers website, msrp- $2495 , street price-$1995 and you can still get a few bucks off of that.
most high end dealers are very uptight thinking at any time they can lose one of their companies they represent because of selling on others turf or undercutting another dealer. but most manufacturers dont really care anymore as long as their product is being sold somewhere. except a few im sure.
 
Joseph R. said:
With all due respect, it’s funny how you get offended from the buyers point of view. But the retailers and manufacturer’s have no qualms with raising prices constantly. Is that “crass” ?

Don’t get me wrong, everyone is entitled to make a living, but some of us are being shut out from our beloved hobby because of the high prices. I’m sure you will agree, it is getting harder and harder to maintain a credible system with rising prices. I think we should stop ignoring the elephant in the room and say something.
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the audio biz today is way different than the past, how many beloved b&m high-end audio stores from 20, 30 or even 10 years ago are still in business? few. dealer's margins haven't changed but the pool of buyers has shrunk considerably, this happened well before prices took off. So if you're a manufacture that sells considerably less units something has to give, its increase your costs or go out of business.
 
First don’t pay retail for any phono cart. You have a right to shop around.

The car analogy doesn’t work imho because it’s all up value in the eyes of the customer. What you value is different than your friends and neighbors. I was told I needed my head examined for what I paid for my speakers. But to me I saw and continue to find value and appreciate them.

That person who paid 40k for Ducati probably is passionate about motorcycles as we are about audio.

He probably thinks the prices of high end audio insane. 40k to play records ; 100k speakers etc ... could go on and on
 
puroagave said:
the audio biz today is way different than the past, how many beloved b&m high-end audio stores from 20, 30 or even 10 years ago are still in business? few. dealer's margins haven't changed but the pool of buyers has shrunk considerably, this happened well before prices took off. So if you're a manufacture that sells considerably less units something has to give, its increase your costs or go out of business.
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Rob et all: Like you I find it very sad that B&M audio stores are in very short supply. When was the last time you visited your favorite shopping mall, and found an audio store there ? This is because the audio community no longer caters to the “everyman”. Audio has become a “boutique” industry. Except for the Outlaw, I don’t even see a reciever for sale anymore. In audio’s hey day, there were entry level, mid-fi and high end rooms. I’m supposing here, but I think the “average” person still desires a decent stereo system. Their only choice now is a “lifestyle” system. All others are out of reach. So has the customer base really changed, or is the whole customer base expected to be only the very high end customer ? Remember it was the low end gear that got us hooked in the first place.

So yes, I agree with you completly with one caveat. The audio biz has changed, but so has the remaining B&M audio stores. You can’t buy a Chevy at a Porche dealer.
 
Joseph R. said:
Rob et all: Like you I find it very sad that B&M audio stores are in very short supply. When was the last time you visited your favorite shopping mall, and found an audio store there ? This is because the audio community no longer caters to the “everyman”. Audio has become a “boutique” industry. Except for the Outlaw, I don’t even see a reciever for sale anymore. In audio’s hey day, there were entry level, mid-fi and high end rooms. I’m supposing here, but I think the “average” person still desires a decent stereo system. Their only choice now is a “lifestyle” system. All others are out of reach. So has the customer base really changed, or is the whole customer base expected to be only the very high end customer ? Remember it was the low end gear that got us hooked in the first place.

So yes, I agree with you completly with one caveat. The audio biz has changed, but so has the remaining B&M audio stores. You can’t buy a Chevy at a Porche dealer.
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I think you are dead wrong. From the 1940s through at least the 1970s, owning a good stereo system was a point of pride for many men. Those days are long gone since the advent of video games, surround sound, and the internet.

Look, there is still plenty of affordable gear for sale and lots of cartridges under $1k. There have always been over the top priced components in this hobby that not everyone could afford even in the 1950s. You have to play in an area that you are comfortable with.
 
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