Has anyone tried up-converting to DSD during CD ripping?

Randy Myers

Randy Myers

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Just wondering if anyone has tried, compared, and feel it is an improved to rip Redbook CDs with JRiver to DSD and then play back in DSD through your DAC. Do you notice any improvements? I have tried a few with varying success. Some definitely sound a little better; and I have no explanation other than maybe the DSD section on the DAC is better than the PCM section, or maybe the filtering is a little better in DSD. Maybe up-converting the CD to DSD smooths out the recording by moving the noise floor.... any ideas.....

Has anyone tried this and if so what are your thoughts?
 
Yes the DSD rip definitely sounds better. More of a sense of real instrument and information. One explanation I heard is that there are more 0s and 1s and less error.
 
I have no idea what causes the change in sound. I have encoded several 16 and 24 bit tracks to DSD Discs. Mostly, as a back up.

The change could be euphonic distortion for all we know.

If the "improvement to sound" made a meaningful difference I suppose one could (would have encoded) encode all their music in DSD?

(I used an iMac w/ Mac OS X, Korg Audiogate 2.3.X, DVD Blanks and a Playstation 3 to verify playback)
 
o0OBillO0o said:
I have no idea what causes the change in sound. I have encoded several 16 and 24 bit tracks to DSD Discs. Mostly, as a back up.

The change could be euphonic distortion for all we know.

If the "improvement to sound" made a meaningful difference I suppose one could (would have encoded) encode all their music in DSD?

(I used an iMac w/ Mac OS X, Korg Audiogate 2.3.X, DVD Blanks and a Playstation 3 to verify playback)
Click to expand...

It does eat up more disc space.
 
Myles B. Astor said:
It does eat up more disc space.
Click to expand...

True. But storage is inexpensive. If storage is an issue, keep files in the original format and convert files on-the-fly to DSD in music player, such as JRiver Media center.

I find that converting anything PCM to DSD is best with music purchases that do not come with a physical media. Specially, creating DSD Discs for archiving your online digital purchases. (I suppose one could archive Vinyl LPs too.)

Why DSD discs? Users can easily restore music by re-importing music from a DSD Disc. A simple drag and drop.

Further, DSD Discs are playable in hardware Disc players- such as the Sony SCD XA5400 ES or Sony PlayStation.

It's fun to experiment, right now I don't think this process will yield any sonic improvements.
 
I do hear some improvements in the CDs that I have ripped to DSD. Sometimes small, other times rather substantial. I have ripped CDs to both 5.6 and 2.8 DSD. I find, in my system, the 2.8 actually seem to sound a little better.

Yes disk space is cheap, and for back up it is no issue. I keep multiple backups. I have both a 4 TB NAS and a 3 TB backup drive in my desktop computer.

In my Surface however, storage space currently is an issue. The Surface has only one USB port. I tried using a USB hub and a large external drive, but I am concerned that the signal traveling through the wire from the Surface to the hub and going through the hub will deteriorate the sound. So I have to be a tad more careful as to what I rip into DSD because space is an issue. I am hoping larger Micro SD cards will be released in the near future, which will alleviate this concern. My current card is 128 GB and I also have 128 GB internal SSD in the Surface. I know SanDisk has released a 200 GB card which I am considering. Since Amazon has it on sale I might grab one as a short term solution :)....
 
Have you tried using the remote feature of JRiver? and by remote I mean stream your own music outside your Local Area Network (LAN).

DSD 64 has a high bitrate. (1 bit * 2.8224 MHz) Which is about ~2.8 Mbps. So watch your tiered data plan and use wifi!

Using a PC to access your info is a little more technical. Research Virtual Private Networks.

Generally, host your own server and connect via Surface, launch JRiver and locate your library on your LAN. Enjoy the quest.
 
Yes, I am a software engineer, so very familiar with networks. I know I can use wi-fi to access my NAS, but I feel more comfortable serving the music from internal drives. We have so many wireless devices in the house that I do feel they can interfere with my music :)... I ordered a 200 GB micro sd card to add a bit more space. That should suffice for now :D.

I really appreciate the input though.... thank you!
 
Randy Myers said:
I do hear some improvements in the CDs that I have ripped to DSD. Sometimes small, other times rather substantial. I have ripped CDs to both 5.6 and 2.8 DSD. I find, in my system, the 2.8 actually seem to sound a little better.

Yes disk space is cheap, and for back up it is no issue. I keep multiple backups. I have both a 4 TB NAS and a 3 TB backup drive in my desktop computer.

In my Surface however, storage space currently is an issue. The Surface has only one USB port. I tried using a USB hub and a large external drive, but I am concerned that the signal traveling through the wire from the Surface to the hub and going through the hub will deteriorate the sound. So I have to be a tad more careful as to what I rip into DSD because space is an issue. I am hoping larger Micro SD cards will be released in the near future, which will alleviate this concern. My current card is 128 GB and I also have 128 GB internal SSD in the Surface. I know SanDisk has released a 200 GB card which I am considering. Since Amazon has it on sale I might grab one as a short term solution :)....
Click to expand...

I should add that I ripped the CDs to 8X DSD.
 
Randy,

Well then, pleased to make your acquaintance any plans on doing your own software related to audio stuff?

Now, there should be no issue with using the Surface dock and any external hard drive.

For portability, your 200GB SD cards are sufficient.

Wifi does interfere with music. Keep wifi and in some cases USB 3.0 away from your electronics. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2423604,00.asp

Enjoy.
 
Myles B. Astor said:
I should add that I ripped the CDs to 8X DSD.
Click to expand...

Yeah that ought to move that nyquist and aliasing filter well beyond human hearing. All the while filling up disc space. I think there is room in the market for a Bluray Disc player that decodes 1024DSD from Bluray Discs. Physical media isn't dead. That would be some rarified air. :D
 
Yea, I was actually thinking about the docking station :)... Maybe if I run across a deal since my only reason for it would be the the multiple USB ports to use external drive. I wonder if that is better than the little USB hub???? I assume it must be...

Just checked, Microsoft has released a cool new docking station that simply connects into the charger port. Quick and easy, however, $200 just to be able to hook an external drive is probably more than is needed. Maybe a down the road addition :)....

My NAS and Printers all run directly off Ethernet ports so no worries about any plugged into the router. I had the entire house wired out when we were having it built a few years back :D....

I also read that wi-fi and Bluetooth can interfere with the music so I turned both off on the Surface :)...

I am mainly a database engineer, but have done some programming in C#, Cold Fusion, VBA, etc....

I am new to the world of digital audio as a high end music source :)... I have never considered nor do I understand any needs for audio related software. So far I have been quite impressed with JRiver Media Center 21...
 
I've spoken with some top DAC designers who feel that DSD128 is the highest practical rate, since they say at higher sampling frequencies the additional negative effects of jitter outweigh any potential benefits. So just going to higher sampling rates may not always prove to be beneficial, apparently there are some tradeoffs that need to be considered.
 
DSD128 is DSD 5.6 right? I am still getting everything straight in my head... I ripped some to 5.6 and it sounded good, but I thought 2.8 sounded a tad clearer to me (yea, I know, makes no sense)... also a space consideration for me in my current configuration.... (I did archive the 5.6 and the 2.8 rips on my NAS so I can pull either back)
 
Yes, DSD128 is also known as double rate DSD (single rate is DSD64). The DSD numbering conventions refer to multiples of the standard CD sampling rate of 44.1kHz. So for example 128 x 44,100 = ~ 5.6MHz.
 
Thank you.... I have been learning this whole digital audio world since returning.... and then recently adding DSD capability :)... loving it though :D....
 
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