Do all media produce a similar soundstage, i.e. CD/ ripp, DSD, vinyl?

Kuoppis

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My fellow Audioholics, I ran into an interesting observation after setting up my audio system in our new home: Comparing the same record on different media I find there is a significantly varying soundstage on the same recording. Have you ever come across anything similar?

Background: Moving into a new country and a new home I was able to indulge in my audiophile desires a bit more building a dedicated listening/ vinyl room for myself. Part of that exercise was setting up my Magicos very meticulously based on the manufacturers instructions, measuring distances and angles and sounding the final position out to allow the speakers to generate the most even and best possible soundstage in the room. As a result I do enjoy my recordings much more, as it is now possible to place instruments and protagonists in the studio or stage more accurately and to picture the orchestra placement in classical music very vividly.

Observation: Enter Art Pepper and the Rhythm Section, in "You'd Be So Nice To Come Home To" I found that the CD rip and DSD download produced significantly different soundstages. I think the recoding is designed to kind of place the Rhythm Section on one side and Art on the other, analogous to Art's view at the time that there pretty much was no-one else good enough to play with him and hence putting a bit of distance between the two. On different media, however, that setup plays out differently.

My fellow Audioholics, I ran into an interesting observation after setting up my audio system in our new home: Comparing the same record on different media I find there is a significantly varying soundstage on the same recording. Have you ever come across anything similar?

Background: Moving into a new country and a new home I was able to indulge in my audiophile desires a bit more building a dedicated listening/ vinyl room for myself. Part of that exercise was setting up my Magicos very meticulously based on the manufacturers instructions, measuring distances and angles and sounding the final position out to allow the speakers to generate the most even and best possible soundstage in the room. As a result I do enjoy my recordings much more, as it is now possible to place instruments and protagonists in the studio or stage more accurately and to picture the orchestra placement in classical music very vividly.

Observation: Enter Art Pepper and the Rhythm Section, in "You'd Be So Nice To Come Home To" I found that the CD rip and DSD download produced significantly different soundstages. I think the recoding is designed to kind of place the Rhythm Section on one side and Art on the other, analogous to Art's view at the time that there pretty much was no-one else good enough to play with him and hence putting a bit of distance between the two. On different media, however, that setup plays out differently.

image.tiff


DSD download: Pretty much even spread between the channels, with the band on one side and Art on the other.

CD rip: Band still on one side, but Art as the main protagonist much bigger and more clearly in the middle.

Vinyl: No access yet, need a little help here.

Anyone interested to try out and to share your observations? Would be interesting to compare the experiences on different media. Which one is "right"?

Maybe someone with recording/ mastering experience can help out, but I thought the change of format could/ should actually not alter the soundstage. Of course it is also possible that either of the files is corrupted. Any other records with similar observations?


DSD download: Pretty much even spread between the channels, with the band on one side and Art on the other.

CD rip: Band still on one side, but Art as the main protagonist much bigger and more clearly in the middle.

Vinyl: No access yet, need a little help here.

Anyone interested to try out and to share your observations? Would be interesting to compare the experiences on different media. Which one is "right"?

Maybe someone with recording/ mastering experience can help out, but I thought the change of format could/ should actually not alter the soundstage. Of course it is also possible that either of the files is corrupted. Any other records with similar observations?
 
No, but I have a general view which I posted on the other duplicate thread of 3.

We are non aggressive sharks here. The holics are A/V headbangers.
 
No, but I have a general view which I posted on the other duplicate thread of 3.

We are non aggressive sharks here. The holics are A/V headbangers.

Apologies Steve, I think it is an interesting question but I messed up trying to initiate the thread in the right category.

Unfortunately I did not find a way to delete the two other attempts.


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AS far as Audioholics they are a separate group in another forum that don't think external dacs, cables bring anything to the table.

regarding your observation I've heard it a few ways. After seeing the Eagles so many times starting back in the mid 70's in Tampa, for me I always try to picture the group in my mind and where the players are located. Like on Hell Freezes over I saw them play 2 times live and their spot on TV and Joe walsh always stood or sat on the far right, always close to Felder but when you hear their music on vinyl his solos are coming out of both speakers, which I find odd. All I can think of is the engineer and the Eagles agreed on it to ensure there was music filling the room for the listeners.
 
I don't think there is any way to tell if the Media produces the same/similar soundstage because all playback sources are different. A top turntable will produce a different soundstage from an equivalent top DAC. Even among DAC's, the soundstage can be completely different playing the same file. Different turntables, arms and cartridges will again produce different results with the same LP. A top reel to reel with an external tape pre and copy of a master tape (example: Tape Project) will sound different from a digital or vinyl source. In my situation, I honestly think my R2R produces the most realistic soundstage (wide and deep), but my vinyl is a very close second.

Heck, more importantly, the mastering/pressing also makes a big difference. Just comparing the REPRISE pressing of Neil Young Live at Massey Hall 1971 to the CLASSIC RECORD pressing of the same album. Classic Record pressing is better. Period.
 
I don't think there is any way to tell if the Media produces the same/similar soundstage because all playback sources are different. A top turntable will produce a different soundstage from an equivalent top DAC. Even among DAC's, the soundstage can be completely different playing the same file. Different turntables, arms and cartridges will again produce different results with the same LP. A top reel to reel with an external tape pre and copy of a master tape (example: Tape Project) will sound different from a digital or vinyl source. In my situation, I honestly think my R2R produces the most realistic soundstage (wide and deep), but my vinyl is a very close second.

Heck, more importantly, the mastering/pressing also makes a big difference. Just comparing the REPRISE pressing of Neil Young Live at Massey Hall 1971 to the CLASSIC RECORD pressing of the same album. Classic Record pressing is better. Period.

Ok, thanks Mike. Much appreciated.

So, as the files were played back on the same MA-1, residing on the same N100H and also through otherwise the same system, the conclusion must be that the CD and DSD download were mastered differently.

Now I at least know that the DSD file is not just an up-sampled CD copy :).

And as you say, vinyl would throw a wrench into the comparison here, as a difference in soundstage could stem from a number of factors.


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AS far as Audioholics they are a separate group in another forum that don't think external dacs, cables bring anything to the table.

regarding your observation I've heard it a few ways. After seeing the Eagles so many times starting back in the mid 70's in Tampa, for me I always try to picture the group in my mind and where the players are located. Like on Hell Freezes over I saw them play 2 times live and their spot on TV and Joe walsh always stood or sat on the far right, always close to Felder but when you hear their music on vinyl his solos are coming out of both speakers, which I find odd. All I can think of is the engineer and the Eagles agreed on it to ensure there was music filling the room for the listeners.

Yeah, sorry, still trying to get my vocabulary right :).


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& then you've got the medium itself that can deliver a wider bandwidth than another.... they say we can't hear it anyway, but, sometimes it's not all about what you can hear.
 
^^^ I like to watch the listening interest of my dog when certain music plays.
 
Steve, my Dalmatian is entertaining to watch too as he sits next to me, that extra bandwidth is noticed.
 
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