Diablo, Esoteric plus Bryston or just Esoteric?

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paleo12

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I have just upgraded my Esoteric K03XSD to an K01XD and I am very happy with the result.

I am now considering amplification. At the moment, I use a Bryston BP26 and a Bryston 4B3 which has an output of 2 x 300W. Speakers are PMC fact 12s with a rather low sensitivity of 84dB, supplemented by 2 Velodyne DD 10 subs. My room is 18’ by 12’ and about 11’ high. I listen mostly to jazz and classical and rarely go louder than about 85 dB. As the room is not very big, the narrow profile of the speakers (just under 7”) is very useful; it would be difficult to accommodate speakers which were much wider.
The BP26 is a very old design, and I am wondering if a lot could be gained by replacing it. I could spend about £10,000 ($12,500) an a pre-amp soon and possibly a similar amount on a power amp next year, if that would seem necessary.

My local dealer can give me a good deal on a Gryphon Diablo 300. He has a nearly new demo unit and the 300 is about to be replaced with the 333. He said it would contribute a bit of warmth which my system could do with. As the Diablo is an integrated amp it would obviously mean no further power amp purchase would be necessary. However, it is so enormous I’m not sure if it would fit into my rack and it would be too heavy for me to lift, were that ever necessary.

Another possibility would be to stay with Esoteric and try out a C03XS pre driving the Bryston 4B3. Has anyone tried this combination? My dealer suggested combining this pre-amp with an Esoteric S05 power amp at some stage, which is a class A amp putting out only 2 x 30W but apparently with a very high current delivery. I’m not sure what that would mean in practical terms as I’m used to thinking about the power of amps in terms of Watts.

I would be very grateful for any advice.
 
If you would like to go the integrated amp route, give the Esoteric Grandioso F1 integrated a serious look if you can find a dealer demo or like new used model. It's big beautiful Class A presentation would definitely meet your stated sonic goals.

For separates, an Esoteric C-03XS would be a great move both driving the Bryston for now and if you would consider an S-05 amp next year (or used S-02 if you could find one).

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk
 
paleo12 said:
I have just upgraded my Esoteric K03XSD to an K01XD and I am very happy with the result.

I am now considering amplification. At the moment, I use a Bryston BP26 and a Bryston 4B3 which has an output of 2 x 300W. Speakers are PMC fact 12s with a rather low sensitivity of 84dB, supplemented by 2 Velodyne DD 10 subs. My room is 18’ by 12’ and about 11’ high. I listen mostly to jazz and classical and rarely go louder than about 85 dB. As the room is not very big, the narrow profile of the speakers (just under 7”) is very useful; it would be difficult to accommodate speakers which were much wider.
The BP26 is a very old design, and I am wondering if a lot could be gained by replacing it. I could spend about £10,000 ($12,500) an a pre-amp soon and possibly a similar amount on a power amp next year, if that would seem necessary.

My local dealer can give me a good deal on a Gryphon Diablo 300. He has a nearly new demo unit and the 300 is about to be replaced with the 333. He said it would contribute a bit of warmth which my system could do with. As the Diablo is an integrated amp it would obviously mean no further power amp purchase would be necessary. However, it is so enormous I’m not sure if it would fit into my rack and it would be too heavy for me to lift, were that ever necessary.

Another possibility would be to stay with Esoteric and try out a C03XS pre driving the Bryston 4B3. Has anyone tried this combination? My dealer suggested combining this pre-amp with an Esoteric S05 power amp at some stage, which is a class A amp putting out only 2 x 30W but apparently with a very high current delivery. I’m not sure what that would mean in practical terms as I’m used to thinking about the power of amps in terms of Watts.

I would be very grateful for any advice.
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Are you able to demo the Gryphon in your system to see if you like the sound? I would not be nervous with it being replaced with a new unit as I have learned many times over the decades "updated" and "improved" units does not always equate to a sound like I like better.
 
Our situation and tastes are similar. I have Magico S3 MkII's and an Esoteric K-01XD (upgraded from a K-03X). I had a Gryphon Diablo 300 for over five years. Great amp, but I wanted a more refined top end, so I replaced it with a Luxman M-10X amp and an Esoteric Grandioso C1X solo. This combination has proved to be a very satisfying upgrade.

With your 84dB speakers, if it were me, I would want to hear any low power amp solution being considered in my system. Some speakers are current limited and 30-50 watt Class A amps may be fine, but I would be careful here. The new Diablo 333 looks very promising.
 
Diablo 300 is long in the tooth. If budget has some flexibility, I’d look for other alternatives you and others have suggested above. I did own 300 for 6 years, very competent piece.
 
The 333 is going to be a jump in price over the 300, by a good amount.

If an amp sounds good to you time shouldn't change that barring any degrade in parts. You may grow tired of it or just want a change. Buying an older model is a way to find a bargain sometimes. Also newer doesn't always equate to better so try to audition before buying if you are enjoying the Bryston.

It will be nice to hear some user reports on the newer Class A Esoteric amps. I too wonder about the power rating.
 
paleo12 said:
...

I would be very grateful for any advice.
Click to expand...

Taking your request for "any advise" in a broad sense, I would consider thinking outside the two 'boxes' (amp and preamp). Speakers (and room) are the biggest determinant of the sound of any system. The room is fixed; however, if you were to keep your current boxes and sell your speakers, you would have US$25k plus whatever you can get for your current speakers available for a speaker replacement. The change in the sound would be much more noticeable than replacing those two boxes.
 
I had esoteric in my system with Bryston & had good results. With the efficiency of your speakers, perhaps the Bryston 14b3 would drive them a bit better.


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I auditioned various integrateds like Accuphase E800, Boulder 866,
Pass Int 250 but decided on a Diablo300. The new D333 will probably be an improvement but the price will be 50% higher.
The D300 is very powerful into low impedance loads (1743W @ 1 Ohm vs 283W @ 1 Ohm for the Int 250) and still a GREAT amp!
The new Diablo333 will be available in october.
 
Am I the only one thinking pass on all the electronics, sell the PMC speakers and put all of the budget into new speakers? I am Magico biased of course. Buy Magico M2. If they don't fit the budget buy Magico S3. If they don't fit the budget buy Magico A5. I think your biggest performance improvement will come from buying the best speakers you can afford. Everything else comes later.
 
brodricj said:
Am I the only one thinking pass on all the electronics, sell the PMC speakers and put all of the budget into new speakers? I am Magico biased of course. Buy Magico M2. If they don't fit the budget buy Magico S3. If they don't fit the budget buy Magico A5. I think your biggest performance improvement will come from buying the best speakers you can afford. Everything else comes later.
Click to expand...
This would also be my approach. Speakers first. Then work on matching amplification. In this example, I'd skip the M2's and begin with the S3 2023's.
 
SCAudiophile said:
If you would like to go the integrated amp route, give the Esoteric Grandioso F1 integrated a serious look if you can find a dealer demo or like new used model. It's big beautiful Class A presentation would definitely meet your stated sonic goals.

For separates, an Esoteric C-03XS would be a great move both driving the Bryston for now and if you would consider an S-05 amp next year (or used S-02 if you could find one).

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Hi,

I used to be Paleo 12 but now I am Paleo 137; I changed my email address and had difficulties registering.

Thanks for your advice. I found the Gryphon would not fit in the rack. I have just acquired the Esoteric C03xs and I am very happy with it. Thinking indeed about a power amp for next year. My current Bryston 4B3 is 2 x 300W and my speakers have a very low sensitivity. The S05 is 2 x 30W, the S02 2 x 145W in A/B. I assume it would be better to go with the S02 as it is more powerful. Would it be a big upgrade from the 4B3 please?
 
Hi,

Thanks for your suggestion. Unfortunately it is pretty well impossible to accomodate speakers who are wider than about 8" or so. The Fact12s are the best speakers available here in the UK that I am aware of that have such a narrow dimension and, combined with the subs, sound pretty good. Do you know of any speakers that might fit?
 
nicoff said:
Taking your request for "any advise" in a broad sense, I would consider thinking outside the two 'boxes' (amp and preamp). Speakers (and room) are the biggest determinant of the sound of any system. The room is fixed; however, if you were to keep your current boxes and sell your speakers, you would have US$25k plus whatever you can get for your current speakers available for a speaker replacement. The change in the sound would be much more noticeable than replacing those two boxes.
Click to expand...

Hi, I agree but I have no space for much wider speakers. Thanks for your suggestions though.
 
Rather than a new power amp, the things I'd consider first are 1) upgrades/improvements to the acoustics of your listening room. The room is the biggest factor by far with respect to the audio quality from your system, and if your room would benefit from adding acoustic panels, diffusers, and corner or bass traps, I'd start there.

The other area I'd also give consideration to is adding one or two Shunyata Altaira ground-plane noise reduction hubs. Personally, I've found both approaches: maximizing the room acoustics and reducing ground-plane noise to be foundational and key for any good system. So, if you haven't addressed these key areas yet, I'd recommend doing that over getting another amp.

Cheers.
 
I have had the Diablo 300, bought from Mike here at SunCoast Audio, for a few years. Absolutely love the tone and slight warmth of the music. Originally acquired to warm up a slightly cool speaker, but now that speaker has been replaced with Rockports it just produces music the way I always wanted in my system. Yes it is large, and yes it is heavy. I have not moved it since it was installed and hope I don’t have the need…
 
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