BUYER BEWARE! My UPSCALE AUDIO Story

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Esteban

Esteban

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Buyer BEWARE!

I'm sharing my own personal experience with UPSCALE AUDIO, who I'm sure need no further introduction in these pages. I thought about posting this on the TUBES sub-forum, but I believe more eyes will be drawn to this section instead.

I had bought my Prima Luna DiaLogue One amplifier from them about 6 years ago ($2.4K) and I have also ordered tubes from them in the past. In the case of tubes I was always frankly disappointed at how long they would actually take to ship them, specially in this day and age when you can order Gold Lion tubes from Amazon Marketplace (reputable audio vendors sell their products THROUGH Amazon) and have them delivered to your door in 2 days via Prime. Not to mention, there are countless other places to buy tubes from online, all of them reputable. However, I decided to give them another chance.

Big mistake!

The following is all matter-of-fact:

- I ordered a total of 6 tubes from UPSCALE AUDIO (4 X Gold Lion KT-88's and 2 Mullard 12AX7's) on May 30th.

- After the order was placed, I received no e-mail confirmation. No receipt. Nothing.

- I called their main 1-800 number to ensure they had received my order. A very nice and extremely friendly lady told me they did, and that I would be receiving my receipt once the order ships. However, for this and that reason (they are moving, it seems) they were very back-ordered and things were taking longer than usual. She explained that it may take 4 days before they can ship the tubes (it ended up being a full week... I placed the order on a Monday, they shipped the following Monday). Mind you, nowhere on the ordering page does it say that they are back-ordered.

- I still wanted some kind of proof of purchase, so I called again 2 days later to check on the order and asked for a receipt. It was finally e-mailed to me that day (after I had asked twice for it). I find this unacceptable in this day and age. A receipt should be automatically generated by the system. And, yes, I did check my spam folder. I work with websites for a living. I know how this works. However, the Lady was nothing if apologetic and beyond friendly, so I remained patient.

- I called again that Friday to check on the status of my order. The Lady transferred me to Kevin Deal, owner of UPSCALE AUDIO, whom I met at conventions in the past and from whom I had bought my Prima Luna amplifier. At no point did he apologize for the delay. Instead, he listed a few excuses (the move, an upcoming show that weekend, etc.) as to why things were slow and he stated, as if complaining, that he's going to "stop selling tubes for a month" as a consequence of how back-ordered they are, because "everybody wants their stuff yesterday". Last time I checked, they were still selling them on their website. This is what they are known for and what they constantly advertise EVERYWHERE. It is beyond me why you would not have a system in place to handle situations of high order volume and/or short staff. He assured me the tubes would ship that Friday. They shipped on Monday.

- I finally received the tubes the next Friday.

- But... they sent the WRONG tubes. They sent KT-66's instead of KT-88's.

- I immediately called to complain, right after I opened the box. The same Lady picked up. Very apologetic, but it was evident that she is not a decision-maker there. "I have to talk to Kevin", she said. Mr. Deal called me back a while after. No apologies. He explained that they were short, etc., etc... Just like before. I would receive a FedEx return slip and I would have to return the items (that were sent in error) to them. I asked if the CORRECT tubes could be over-nighted to me, since this was clearly not my mistake. He said: "I am not going to spend 50 bucks on overnight FedEx", but that he would send them 2-day instead. Fine. But, again, his demeanor and attitude were not what one would expect in such a case. It was as if I was the one who dropped the ball, and not the other way around.

- I went to FedEx on Monday (yesterday) to return the tubes sent to me in error.

- Today I finally received the SECOND box.

- Guess what? The WRONG tubes were sent to me, AGAIN! (KT-66's instead of KT-88's).

- Again, I called them. This time Mr. Deal picked up the phone himself. I introduced myself and asked if he remembered our conversation from last week. His answer: "hhhmm... barely!"

- I explained the situation. He was not apologetic in the least. He (AGAIN) wanted me to go through the trouble of returning the box to FedEx. I asked for a refund and explained (as IF I HAD TO!) that it was THEY who screwed-up, TWICE, and that if he was MY costumer, I would offer a refund immediately, no questions asked, and I would also tell him to just keep the tubes. But, no, he wants me to return the tubes AGAIN, and only THEN would he offer a refund. As anybody who's been through a similar situation in the past would know, this will all take weeks by the time one can actually see the funds back in a bank or credit card account. Unacceptable.

- He called me "Hector" multiple times. I corrected him. I told him my name was "Esteban" (it was also misspelled TWICE on the shipping labels). AFTER I had corrected him, he called me "Hector" again. I told him he was insulting me and that I would not put up with this anymore. I hanged-up on him.

For many, Mr. Deal needs to introduction. Mostly not for the right reasons. If you have been into audio in the US for a while, you know Kevin Deal and UPSCALE AUDIO, and you heard the stories. I am now surprised he is still in business. I have been undecided about his persona, since I have a soft spot for folks who call-it-like-it-is and I respect somebody who speaks his/her mind, but the fact that you are opinionated does not mean you have to be rude. He would also benefit from somebody else being in charge of costumer service. Mr. Deal, it seems, has a hard time admitting mistakes, or owning up to them, and evidently does not know how to treat costumers. He also has that demeaning, "you-are-a-pain-and-why-am-I-putting-up-with-you-even-though-you-spent-thousands-with-me-in-the-past" attitude, oh-so-common in the world of hi-end audio sales.

It goes without saying: I will never, ever, buy from UPSCALE AUDIO again.
 
Thanks for sharing your story Esteban. Sorry to hear of your struggles.


Hope you get the tubes you desire, and soon regardless of source.
 
Hector...sorry, Esteban or may I call you STEVEN. I'm not an apologist for anyone and I dislike it when people do it on behalf of others. I think you should write him a letter and see if he does anything for you but take it off line. Kevin's bedside manner isn't great and pushed against a wall on a public forum will only make it worse, IMO of course. He's not such a bad dude, I'm sure he'll do something to make it 'right.'
 
I think that a public forum like this is a good place to post legitimate complaints against unscrupulous vendors. Where else can someone go to notify other audiophiles of a dealer that is not taking care of their customers?
Having had a business for many years I understand that things happen. I always tried to do my best to obtain a satisfactory resolution to the problem but sometimes it is impossible.
What is important is that the seller do their best to make it right. If you fail to do that then the injured party has every right to publicly air their complaint.
The seller also has an opportunity to respond to any complaints posted.
What is actually more unfair is that the good sellers don"t get enough positive press for all the good work that they do.
 
Esteban.......I am sorry to hear of your substandard treatment. I don't shop Upscale Audio because I find their tube prices too high compared to other tube vendors selling the same products. Kevin's claim to fame seems to be that he manages to root out hard to find tubes for those seeking such things and commands a pretty penny when he sells them, but none of that reputation should support the arrogant attitude and condescension displayed to you. The sheer ignorance of intentionally continuing to misuse a personal name after being corrected goes beyond rude.

Thanks for the heads up on Upscale Audio and Kevin Deal's inflated self importance and complete lack of empathy for issues he and his company created. I won't shop Upscale Audio. I prefer to shop where my business is appreciated and respected.
 
jadedavid said:
I think that a public forum like this is a good place to post legitimate complaints against unscrupulous vendors. Where else can someone go to notify other audiophiles of a dealer that is not taking care of their customers?
Having had a business for many years I understand that things happen. I always tried to do my best to obtain a satisfactory resolution to the problem but sometimes it is impossible.
What is important is that the seller do their best to make it right. If you fail to do that then the injured party has every right to publicly air their complaint.
The seller also has an opportunity to respond to any complaints posted.
What is actually more unfair is that the good sellers don"t get enough positive press for all the good work that they do.
Click to expand...

I 2nd that! We need to watch each others back when it comes down to BAD dealers taking your hard earned money.
 
For the record, I just listened to a voice-mail message left on my phone by Mr. Deal last night (I am on the EAST coast, he is in CA). Long story short, he once again was only able to provide excuses but no real solutions to the problem.

His explanation for all of this was the following: he had hired a relative's boyfriend to work at the shop, and apparently this person was responsible for the mistake (TWICE). Other costumers have had similar experiences (ie: wrong tubes sent to them) in the last few days as well, so he "went ballistic"). He then proceeded to explain that the KT-66's packaging looks very similar to the KT-88's, and that is why this employee probably got confused, but that he "didn't give a shit about that" (translation: that is Mr. Deal's way of saying "even though my guy is new and inexperienced, there is no excuse for his mistake"). He then said that he had "suspended" the employee. I think he's being too kind with the wrong person. How about showing me the same kindness?

I find it ironic that UPSCALE AUDIO prides itself in having the most exotic and hard-to-find tubes in the market, are constantly indirectly criticizing other vendors with phrases such as "why would you buy from somebody else?" and implying that the sources of most other vendors are questionable at best, while making a big deal about things like testing, tubes that are cryogenically treated, etc., etc... And yet, at the end of the day, all these wonderfully exotic tubes are being handled and packaged by a clueless teenager who got the job handed to him as a favor and more than likely can't tell the difference between a KT-88 and a light-bulb.

Just think about that for a second.

He also finally apologized, in his own way. I do appreciate that. BUT, he is still NOT dealing and taking care of the issue at hand. He also went on and on about how I have multiple FedEx locations within a few miles from my house. Thank you. I do not need anybody to remind me of that. It is beside the point. That is what in my mind confirms that he simply does NOT "get it". In his mind, "taking care of the issue" is having me go to the trouble of stopping by FedEx for the SECOND time to send the tubes that THEY sent in error to me (again, for the SECOND time) and THEN wait for him to receive them and then and ONLY THEN, he will be "happy to give you your money back". This would take, at best, at least 2 weeks. Unacceptable.

If the roles were reversed, I would have offered a refund immediately and I would have told him to keep the wrong tubes, or maybe to ship them back at his convenience, and not mine, while making sure that the CORRECT tubes was being sent to him ASAP at no extra charge. His earlier comment (see my first post) about how he was not going to spend "50 bucks" on FedEx overnight speaks volumes as well. Here we have a company that is moving to a brand new, enormous facility, and sells hi-end audio gear, a lot of it in excess of tens of thousands, sometimes HUNDREDS of thousands of dollars, and yet he can not justify spending $50 to correct a mistake with a returning costumer.

Again, think about that for a second.

I realize a lot of folks have had good experiences with Mr. Deal in the past. He is well known in the industry and he certainly knows his tubes. I am also a very happy owner of a PrimaLuna amp (but in that case he is only the distributor). However, I think it is situations such as the one I described above when a person's or business owner's true colors come to light.
 
When did we go from "The Customer is always right", to, "The Customer doesn't really matter"?

That is not Customer Service, it's a bunch of lame excuses because someone is not properly minding the store.

The response should have been from day 1 - "We apologize for the mistake and we have corrected it. Please return the incorrect tubes after you receive the correct ones as the return label will be included"

End of story

It does not make ANY sense about the packaging being similar. No matter what the packaging is, a 66 is quite different than an 88, unless one is severely vision impaired. After the idiot did it twice, the owner should have Hand Delivered them or at least Overnight at no charge.

It is really a shame that you get better, faster, and more reliable service from Amazon over a so called reputable HE dealer and a better price most of the time.

Sorry you ended up with such an experience but thanks for sharing it. Maybe he will think differently next time as several thousand potential customers just got spoiled.
 
Clarity:


its a two way street unfortunately very few customers are loyal today ( WW internet sales era) , so monies lost on sales to pacify customers ( good CS) is very rarely recouped, making bad CS relations easy to justify as a Business decision ...

Regards
 
OPPO customer service is stellar. They usually respond within an hour and resolve any issues within days which includes sending you new parts and not asking for the old ones back.
 
I don't know what it is about audio, but I have gotten some of the WORST customer service in this hobby as compared to just about anything else I've purchased or been involved in. From snobby dealers to disinterested dealers (local Audio Research dealer) to dealers who seemingly hold their customers in contempt to outright criminals (*still* waiting for my amps or ~$1600 refund if you are out there Ron Welborne. It's only been 9 years now).

By way of comparison, I am a shareholding partner in a law firm in Chicago. Our slogan is literally "client service is our top priority" and all of my attorneys are trained to make sure that it is. Why? Attorneys are a dime a dozen. If we are being totally frank, anybody can do what we do here. More or less. The only thing that distinguishes us from competitors is customer service. Audio dealers should take note. Same thing applies.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I had to call UPSCALE AUDIO again just now, since I was promised a FedEx return slip to ship the SECOND box back to them, but I had not received it yet. So I spoke to Kevin again and asked if he could please send me the shipping slip asap via e-mail. He then went on and on about how his employee is such a good guy and should not be fired, etc, etc... Again, completely beside the point! Of course I want NOBODY to be fired on my behalf. I never stated nor requested such a thing. Never. He simply decided to bring that up for no reason at all. All I was asking for is to be properly taken care of as a costumer, and I explained to him that we evidently do not see and define "take care of a costumer" in the same manner... The rest are just excuses. Mr. Deal has a very laid-back CA personality and I get the feeling he just does not see the problem in the same way I do. Fine, I get it. I just want to return this to him and get my money back. But he would not let go... He kept rambling about how he would "not let anger consume and govern him" (or words to such effect), etc, etc... I frankly do not know if I should laugh or cry... At one point, he even insinuated that I all I wanted out of this was free tubes, and that he "knew where this was going...". Frankly, I could not care less about tubes that I did NOT order and have no use for. What am I supposed to do with them? I did not even knew KT-66's existed until now! All I wanted was for him to refund me ASAP instead of waiting for YET ANOTHER BOX to be sent back to him...

Again, insulting and frustrating in the extreme.
 
I am definitely a BEGINNER here, so take this with a grain of salt. I DID call Kevin Deal, as referred to by Mike Bovaird. a very polite guy answered the phone and would have Kevin call me back. kevin was on the phone. kevin DID call me back, and I missed his call. my fault, I was busy at work. I did call back again, and the very polite fellow gave him the message again. Mr. Deal was again on the phone. kevin deal DID call back after I had gone home. so he DID try to reach me and he IS busy on the phone. I have nothing bad to say about him.

my experience, which led me here: I went to a Best Buy and got my really nice bowers and wilkins speakers there. one guy was WAY nicer than the other. they have LOTS of high end audio there, but I decided to try internet forums and ended up here. I was curious about tube amps. I found Mike Bovaird so very helpful, and so eager to steer me AWAY from his high end store and to other dealers. that is unheard of!! an honest guy trying to look out for me. he is tireless in answering my dumb questions and never rude. I decided to save up and get an integrated tube amp from him. honesty counts for a lot with me. imagine if you found a car salesman that was nice, and honest. what a difference that would make. you know, it IS a small world, and with forums like this, one bad experience can get around. have fun everyone, be nice to everyone, and help each other. best,Bob
 
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