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Thread: Audio Show Rant

  1. #51

    Re: Audio Show Rant

    Quote Originally Posted by highEndguy View Post
    I also loved Diana and if somebody say
    something bad of Her I will Hunt you down
    I do too and really don't care if something is played in many rooms. That's actually a plus.

    I also find the notion of systems only being able to play one type of music ridiculous. Maybe 30 years ago. Or maybe one or two systems today but the vast majority of systems play all types of music.
    Myles B. Astor, Senior Editor, PF, www.positive-feedback.com
    Zellaton Plural Evo speakers, Doshi Audio EVO phonostage, VPI Avenger direct-drive turntable/VPI 12-inch gimbal Fatboy/vdH Colibri Master Signature/Triangle Art Apollo cartridges, SAT LM-12 tonearms/Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, VPI 12-inch gimballed Carbon Fiber arm/vdh Black Crimson and Sumiko Songbird, Mutech Hayabusa cartridges
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  2. #52
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    Re: Audio Show Rant

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    OK...I'll admit, I love Diana Krall's music. Must be the being born in Canada part of me. Is she overplayed at shows and friends homes? Oh yeah...


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  3. #53

    Re: Audio Show Rant

    I haven't read the entire thread but I will say that I understand to a certain extent why presenters might be hesistant to play someone else's music. I've been in rooms where the music was... let's just say "an acquired taste" that most in the room didn't really enjoy. In each case, it was music brought from home by an attendee. That being said, I don't understand the reluctance if it is music that the presenter in familiar with and it is relatively popular.
    Anthony
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  4. #54

    Re: Audio Show Rant

    Quote Originally Posted by asindc View Post
    I haven't read the entire thread but I will say that I understand to a certain extent why presenters might be hesistant to play someone else's music. I've been in rooms where the music was... let's just say "an acquired taste" that most in the room didn't really enjoy. In each case, it was music brought from home by an attendee. That being said, I don't understand the reluctance if it is music that the presenter in familiar with and it is relatively popular.
    Understood but it is a consumer, not a trade show. If I'm a consumer and interested in something, I'd like to hear something I'm familiar with played on the system.
    Myles B. Astor, Senior Editor, PF, www.positive-feedback.com
    Zellaton Plural Evo speakers, Doshi Audio EVO phonostage, VPI Avenger direct-drive turntable/VPI 12-inch gimbal Fatboy/vdH Colibri Master Signature/Triangle Art Apollo cartridges, SAT LM-12 tonearms/Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, VPI 12-inch gimballed Carbon Fiber arm/vdh Black Crimson and Sumiko Songbird, Mutech Hayabusa cartridges
    Technics RS1506 reel-to-reel with low inductance Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi Audio EVO tapestage, AudioQuest Dragon Zero, Audience FrontRow, Ensemble PC, Skogrand, Kubala-Sosna Realization speaker cable, Ikigai Kangai speaker cable, SRA Craz 3/OHIO 2.3 platforms and Symposium ISIS/Ultra rack/platforms, Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC.

  5. #55
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    Re: Audio Show Rant

    at the last Newport show I bumped into an audio salesman i've known for few decades that worked in one of the premier shops. we're sitting together in the EAR/Marten room and Dan Meinwald asks if anyone has any requests, from Rich's bag he pulls out a mono Beatles 45 of love me do. I thought it was a prank but he was dead serious and so was Dan, after the demo Dan thanked him. to me it served no purpose, to Rich it was probably one of his devilish schemes to dress down snobby exhibitors. bottom line, IMO the salesperson/exhibitors job is to accommodate the customer - think about it, you have a captive and prequalified audience waiting to give you their money why the poor treatment?

  6. #56

    Re: Audio Show Rant

    Quote Originally Posted by Myles B. Astor View Post
    You are forgetting the compression wars. Most of today's recordings have next to no dynamic range. So how can a system make that sound better?
    I'm not forgetting that, I just failed to mention it and your absolutely right about today's recordings.
    It's sad really, it's all about replacing artistry with mass consumerism.

    I didn't say a system could make a bad recording sound better. I did imply that a non-revealing system can make it harder to tell especially of one did not hear the same recording on even a slightly better system. Nothing can make a bad recording sound good. Once you compress, you loose dynamics, there is no reverse. You can't take say an MP3, convert it back to lossless wav or redbook or other lossless format and get what was lost in compression back.
    There are a few good rock recordings (especially in the prog rock area depending on the artist and how much control they have which can be also said for any other genre)....a few, not a bunch and I'm not talking about from the late 90s onward either. In my opinion the compression wars just get worse with every year. I also don't think that SACDs have true dynamic range, then again I've only heard one (it was a Yes Album, but I forgot which one) and it sounded like it was on life support. It sounded like fake dynamics were added what made it worse.
    Of course, for groups like Yes and many many more, you'll never beat vinyl.

  7. #57

    Re: Audio Show Rant

    Quote Originally Posted by highEndguy View Post
    I also loved Diana and if somebody say
    something bad of Her I will Hunt you down
    Just to be clear, I never said anything bad about her. I don't think she is a bad artist or anything, I like her style of music and have only heard her live, she just does nothing for me, by that I mean doesn't excite me like some others. My bigger complaint is that she has been over played. If they did the same with my all time favs, I'd have the same opinion and be somewhat jaded or even turned off to a degree on those too.
    Same reason I don't listen to radio anymore, they over play and over play. I don't want to hear the same artist and same one or two songs 25 times a day.

  8. #58

    Re: Audio Show Rant

    Quote Originally Posted by Myles B. Astor View Post
    I do too and really don't care if something is played in many rooms. That's actually a plus.

    I also find the notion of systems only being able to play one type of music ridiculous. Maybe 30 years ago. Or maybe one or two systems today but the vast majority of systems play all types of music.
    That's that thing. Why don't they play all types of music, instead of sticking with one artist and one type in demo? Naturally, there is not enough time to play everything everyone wants, but at least have a selection of all types and both everyday medium and audiophile medium and take a request now and again. That way, we the listener can have a fair evaluation of said system. Besides, would that not give more opportunity for jaw-drop or speechless factor?

  9. #59

    Re: Audio Show Rant

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    OK...I'll admit, I love Diana Krall's music. Must be the being born in Canada part of me. Is she overplayed at shows and friends homes? Oh yeah...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Canada has given forth some of the best artists ever! One of my top 5 favs is Canadian and many of my other favs (Sarah Mclachlan, Gordon Lightfoot, just to name only two) again, Canadian.

  10. #60

    Re: Audio Show Rant

    Joni Mitchell
    Neil Young
    Robbie Robertson
    Leonard Cohen
    Holly Cole
    ?
    Myles B. Astor, Senior Editor, PF, www.positive-feedback.com
    Zellaton Plural Evo speakers, Doshi Audio EVO phonostage, VPI Avenger direct-drive turntable/VPI 12-inch gimbal Fatboy/vdH Colibri Master Signature/Triangle Art Apollo cartridges, SAT LM-12 tonearms/Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, VPI 12-inch gimballed Carbon Fiber arm/vdh Black Crimson and Sumiko Songbird, Mutech Hayabusa cartridges
    Technics RS1506 reel-to-reel with low inductance Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi Audio EVO tapestage, AudioQuest Dragon Zero, Audience FrontRow, Ensemble PC, Skogrand, Kubala-Sosna Realization speaker cable, Ikigai Kangai speaker cable, SRA Craz 3/OHIO 2.3 platforms and Symposium ISIS/Ultra rack/platforms, Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC.

  11. #61

    Audio Show Rant

    Off topic but also from the great white north

    Cowboy junkies
    Arcade fire
    Tragically hip
    Bruce cockburn
    Rush
    Kd lang
    Blue rodeo
    Alanis morrisette
    Serena ryder
    Loreena mckennitt
    Feist
    Metric
    Broken social scene

  12. #62
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    Re: Audio Show Rant

    Quote Originally Posted by tunes View Post
    Off topic but also from the great white north

    Cowboy junkies
    Arcade fire
    Tragically hip
    Bruce cockburn
    Rush
    Kd lang
    Blue rodeo
    Alanis morrisette
    Serena ryder
    Loreena mckennitt
    Feist
    Metric
    Broken social scene
    Triumph
    Tragically Hip
    -----------------
    Brian

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  13. #63

    Re: Audio Show Rant

    See? Much we can thank our Canadian neighbors for!

    Many more names I am familiar with and have lots of music from in my library.
    Here are more canuck artists we know:
    BTO
    The Band
    Barenaked Ladies
    Crash Test Dummies
    Delerium
    Five Man Electrical Band
    The Guess Who
    Lighthouse (another of my favs)
    Mahogany Rush
    Sloan
    Steppenwolf

  14. #64
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    Re: Audio Show Rant

    My thoughts on these shows (of which I've done many, including RMAF last year).
    1) You can please some of the people some of the time, you can't please all the people all the time.
    As such, someone will always be happy or unhappy with the music...or something.
    2) The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. This is a SHOW. Not a private audition. So forgive the exhibitors if they would rather not accommodate your particular taste for "Songs of the humpback whale, NG mono" during "everybody" hours to "see if it sounds good with what you like".
    ***However***, there is no reason not to ask for a private audition. Many audiophiles are incredibly timid. Speak up! Most exhibitors are not mind readers, but would most likely be fine giving private seat time to listen to whatever one wishes, prospective buyer or not.
    So...for show times 10a-6p...it's "dealers choice", i.e. music they think will best exhibit their products strengths, to as many people as possible, the whole reason for the show.
    If one is genuinely interested in the product, ask for a private audition 9a-10a, or >5:30p.
    I have never personally turned down such a request....and have almost always allowed folks to play what they request, even during show hours. 98% of attendees do not bring music (and seem to think the sweet spot seats are a trap).

    cheers,

    AJ

  15. #65

    Re: Audio Show Rant

    Quote Originally Posted by puroagave View Post
    at the last Newport show I bumped into an audio salesman i've known for few decades that worked in one of the premier shops. we're sitting together in the EAR/Marten room and Dan Meinwald asks if anyone has any requests, from Rich's bag he pulls out a mono Beatles 45 of love me do. I thought it was a prank but he was dead serious and so was Dan, after the demo Dan thanked him. to me it served no purpose, to Rich it was probably one of his devilish schemes to dress down snobby exhibitors. bottom line, IMO the salesperson/exhibitors job is to accommodate the customer - think about it, you have a captive and prequalified audience waiting to give you their money why the poor treatment?
    So what's wrong with a 45 of Love Me Do?

  16. #66
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    Re: Audio Show Rant

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield View Post
    2) The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. This is a SHOW. Not a private audition. So forgive the exhibitors if they would rather not accommodate your particular taste for "Songs of the humpback whale, NG mono" during "everybody" hours to "see if it sounds good with what you like".
    ***However***, there is no reason not to ask for a private audition. Many audiophiles are incredibly timid. Speak up! Most exhibitors are not mind readers, but would most likely be fine giving private seat time to listen to whatever one wishes, prospective buyer or not.
    So...for show times 10a-6p...it's "dealers choice", i.e. music they think will best exhibit their products strengths, to as many people as possible, the whole reason for the show.
    If one is genuinely interested in the product, ask for a private audition 9a-10a, or >5:30p.
    From my experience, it isn't the show goers that want hump back whale songs, it's the dealers. They pick the most bizarre and obscure recordings on a regular basis, not because it will appeal to many people, but simply because it was pristinely recorded and makes their gear sound great. I've trolled audiophile forums for years and I'm pretty sure that Eric Clapton would have far more mass appeal than Celtic songs from Wolcum Yule. So when I try and get my music played I'm most likely doing a FAVOR for the other attendees, not a disservice. Gives them a break from the riveting Wolcum Yule and a chance to hear something they might actually own.

    One would hope that a dealer would be confident enough in the $100,000 stack of equipment to play any mainstream selection. Shouldn't $100,000 buy a system that makes even Lady Gaga sound as good as possible? Why is it necessary to carefully select special music that plays to the products strengths? If a dealer lacks that confidence in his gear, he should really look for different brands to represent rather than attempting to fool a show goer by misrepresenting the typical performance the gear can be expected to provide. No?
    System 1: Matrix Element M -> Sugden A21se -> Klipsch Cornwall 3.

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  17. #67
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    Re: Audio Show Rant

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    So what's wrong with a 45 of Love Me Do?
    hah! somehow I knew that would smoke you out. in hindsight nothing is wrong with it, at the time I thought It ridiculous knowing where Rich used to work and their dim view of that 'kind' of request. He's actually a huge Beatles fan.

  18. #68
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    Re: Audio Show Rant

    Quote Originally Posted by jaxwired View Post
    From my experience, it isn't the show goers that want hump back whale songs, it's the dealers. They pick the most bizarre and obscure recordings on a regular basis
    Guess it goes both ways, but yes, I agree with you. I've sneaked out of the room at shows, gone into other rooms with as you say, >$100k of stuff with big bold speakers and said, hey wow me....up cues the tune I heard riding in the elevator. Really?
    Wow. Ok thanks, glad to know it does Muzak with aplomb!

    But as I said, you can't please all the people all the time....

    cheers,

    AJ

  19. #69

    Re: Audio Show Rant

    Quote Originally Posted by puroagave View Post
    hah! somehow I knew that would smoke you out. in hindsight nothing is wrong with it, at the time I thought It ridiculous knowing where Rich used to work and their dim view of that 'kind' of request. He's actually a huge Beatles fan.
    My highlight of RMAF was listening to back to back comparisons of VERY early pressings of the Beatles stereo LPs compared against the new mono box set. I'm stoked about breaking mine out at Christmas. I was hoping this wasn't going to be a bust like the digital remix of the stereo and mono collections as well as the 24/44.1 Flac files on the USB green apple.

  20. #70
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    Re: Audio Show Rant

    Hey whats wrong with whale songs. You should be 100ft underwater and hear them singing, it makes your insides rattle
    2chl : Vincent Sp331MkII, W4S STP-SE Stage 2, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, Bryston CD, BHA-1, Quicksilver Headamp, HD650, HD800s, HD820's, Dan Clark 1.1, Focal Stellia, OPPO 203, 105. ( Boxed up: Pass Xa-30.5, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV-20XL, Manley Chinook, Cadenza Bronze)

  21. #71

    Re: Audio Show Rant

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield View Post
    My thoughts on these shows (of which I've done many, including RMAF last year).
    1) You can please some of the people some of the time, you can't please all the people all the time.
    As such, someone will always be happy or unhappy with the music...or something.
    2) The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. This is a SHOW. Not a private audition. So forgive the exhibitors if they would rather not accommodate your particular taste for "Songs of the humpback whale, NG mono" during "everybody" hours to "see if it sounds good with what you like".
    ***However***, there is no reason not to ask for a private audition. Many audiophiles are incredibly timid. Speak up! Most exhibitors are not mind readers, but would most likely be fine giving private seat time to listen to whatever one wishes, prospective buyer or not.
    So...for show times 10a-6p...it's "dealers choice", i.e. music they think will best exhibit their products strengths, to as many people as possible, the whole reason for the show.
    If one is genuinely interested in the product, ask for a private audition 9a-10a, or >5:30p.
    I have never personally turned down such a request....and have almost always allowed folks to play what they request, even during show hours. 98% of attendees do not bring music (and seem to think the sweet spot seats are a trap).

    cheers,

    AJ
    I agree, expecially with #2.
    Anthony
    Analog: VPI Clearaudio Innovation Wood/Kuzma 4Point/Ortofon A95> ASR Basis Exclusive HV---->

    Digital: Antipodes CX (Oladra Upgrade)> Cary DMS-600 DAC/Streamer---->
    ...........Cary 306 SACD Professional Disc Player---->

    ===> Cary SLP-05 (Ultimate Upgrade edition)----> Clayton M-300----> MARTIN LOGAN SPIRES/REL 212SX x2

    [Synergistic Research/Nordost/Wireworld/Furutech/SRA/Adona/Stillpoints/Track Audio/GIK Acoustics]

  22. #72

    Re: Audio Show Rant

    Quote Originally Posted by asindc View Post
    I agree, expecially with #2.
    I suppose Spock would say it is then not logical to request playback of any thrash or death metal material.


    Speakeasy

  23. #73
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    Re: Audio Show Rant

    Well, I go to a show like this to see if anything should be on my radar for future purchase. Without listening to my music it is impossible to determine that IMO. So just listening to whatever the dealer or rep wants to play while mildly entertaining is ultimately not useful.

    I also would argue that the "needs of the many" are better served by playing my variety of real world music rather than the obscure audiophile cuts favored by most dealers and reps.
    System 1: Matrix Element M -> Sugden A21se -> Klipsch Cornwall 3.

    System 2: Matrix Element X -> Exposure 3510 -> Heco Direkt.

  24. #74
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    Re: Audio Show Rant

    Quote Originally Posted by Myles B. Astor View Post
    Good points. I have three of my own.


    1) RMAF is about the consumer meeting his/her favorite manufacturer and having a glorious experience. So when someone enters the room, get off your a** or stop talking to your buddy and greet the attendee.

    2) If the music sounds bad at low levels, turning it up to ear splitting levels won't make it sound one iota better.

    3) Screw the music and turn the AC on. If my eardrums are filled with sweat, I'm not going to appreciate the music.
    Well said!
    Industry disclaimer: I am a dealer of D'Agostino Electronics, Wilson Audio, McIntosh, Devialet, KEF, Magnepan, Martin Logan, Wadia PMC, Nordost, VPI, Spatial speakers, Audeze, Wyred 4 Sound etc, so anything I say related to Audio/Video is most likely biased...not that there's anything wrong with that!

    Website: www.audioexcellence.ca

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  25. #75
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    Re: Audio Show Rant

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield View Post
    My thoughts on these shows (of which I've done many, including RMAF last year).
    1) You can please some of the people some of the time, you can't please all the people all the time.
    As such, someone will always be happy or unhappy with the music...or something.
    2) The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. This is a SHOW. Not a private audition. So forgive the exhibitors if they would rather not accommodate your particular taste for "Songs of the humpback whale, NG mono" during "everybody" hours to "see if it sounds good with what you like".
    ***However***, there is no reason not to ask for a private audition. Many audiophiles are incredibly timid. Speak up! Most exhibitors are not mind readers, but would most likely be fine giving private seat time to listen to whatever one wishes, prospective buyer or not.
    So...for show times 10a-6p...it's "dealers choice", i.e. music they think will best exhibit their products strengths, to as many people as possible, the whole reason for the show.
    If one is genuinely interested in the product, ask for a private audition 9a-10a, or >5:30p.
    I have never personally turned down such a request....and have almost always allowed folks to play what they request, even during show hours. 98% of attendees do not bring music (and seem to think the sweet spot seats are a trap).

    cheers,

    AJ
    Excellent reply. I've been to over 24 years of shows, and helped/exhibited at some. I've never turned down any requests, but I've cringed at a few when the recordings were so bad that the sound of the system was blamed. One memory in particular stands out...the visitor wanted me to turn it up...LOUD! So, according to some posters, I should have accommodated, but the same posters might have been offended that the volume was too loud.

    I've NEVER heard a system that made every recording sound good. Impossible. And the better the system, the more it reveals. "Musical" systems that reveal little or no detail might offend less, but then I don't define these systems as "high end" (whatever that term means to you)

    If you have a recording you'd like to listen to, ask. IF the exhibitor refuses to play it, move on. You don't have to listen to his selection, but he also has the right to play music he feels best demonstrates his system (rightly or wrongly).

    ok, flame suit is on...
    Industry disclaimer: I am a dealer of D'Agostino Electronics, Wilson Audio, McIntosh, Devialet, KEF, Magnepan, Martin Logan, Wadia PMC, Nordost, VPI, Spatial speakers, Audeze, Wyred 4 Sound etc, so anything I say related to Audio/Video is most likely biased...not that there's anything wrong with that!

    Website: www.audioexcellence.ca

    https://www.facebook.com/audioexcellencecanada

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Audio Show Rant

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