Thread: Will Tidal Survive

Is Tidal Failing? Music Industry Executives Put Jay Z’s Embattled Streaming Service On Deathwatch

http://www.ibtimes.com/tidal-failing-music-industry-executives-put-jay-zs-embattled-streaming-service-2071365

Why Is Tidal, Jay-Z's Streaming Music Business, Failing?

71% of music execs think Tidal will die within a year - Business Insider

Interesting,

thoughts ?

If Tidal is bleeding subscribers then JayZ or whoever gets control will have to start charging something less than $20 per mo. for lossless. Subs are voting with their feet.

I've subscribed to both Tidal and Spotify. But I've built what playlists I have primarily in Spotify. Tidal is still clunkier.

I subscribed to Tidal for one month then decided it wasn't worth $240 a year to me. I don't listen seriously to any streaming service, even one that streams at CD quality. I generally use streaming audio to preview music for a purchase. On top of that, there is so much free music available online to enjoy for background use in your home it seems silly to me to pay for it. I listen to Radio Swiss Jazz most of the time at no cost and love the programming. Radio Swiss Jazz - Home

I don't really care if Tidal makes it or not. I don't listen to it and damn sure won't be paying $20.00 a month for it.

I like what MF said about streaming audio.

I hope it survives. I recently dumped Rhapsody (and prior to that MOG and Spotify) and have gone strictly with Tidal. I like the SQ improvement. In addition many of the manufacturers have begun to integrate Tidal. If I end up with Roon the Tidal integration is really top notch.

Originally Posted by FlexibleAudio

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Yep , spot on

I could not care less...............I dont use any music streaming service at all

Originally Posted by mep

I like what MF said about streaming audio.

What did MF say about streaming?


Has anyone tried the new Apple service? I'm on Tidal now, but can't justify the cost given my very limited use. My kids stream, so when I'm on and my son tries Tidal, I get kicked off. I'll have to pay another $20/month for him to stream from Tidal. Apple Music at least has a family plan for $15/month...

Originally Posted by Double-D

I listen to Radio Swiss Jazz most of the time at no cost and love the programming. Radio Swiss Jazz - Home

Dan, thanks for pointing out Radio Swiss Jazz in an earlier post. I've been enjoying this format along with the pop and classical versions. i have grabbed many cuts from RSJ to enjoy.

Originally Posted by mep

I like what MF said about streaming audio.

What, huh

Dan,

Thanks for the link to Radio Swiss Jazz. It's a terrific station!

Here are three other internet radio jazz stations that I really like:

Audiophile Jazz - Greece - 320 kbps

The Psychomed - Audiophile | Jazz

WBGO Jazz - Newark, NJ

WBGO Live Stream | WBGO Jazz 88.3 FM - Jazz Public Radio Station - NJ and NYC | WBGO.org

Jazz Sets NPR with Dee Dee Bridgewater - You select the jazz set. All jazz sets were recorded live and are unique. Kenny Barron/Dave Holland and Russell Malone are my favorites.

http://www.npr.org/series/15773330/j...ee-bridgewater

Ken

Originally Posted by Odyssey

Dan, thanks for pointing out Radio Swiss Jazz in an earlier post. I've been enjoying this format along with the pop and classical versions. i have grabbed many cuts from RSJ to enjoy.

Le Roy.......My pleasure. I am listening to Radio Swiss Jazz right now on my desktop speakers. I like the wide selection of music and the information that shows the album cover and titles. The Pop and Classical stations are good, too. I am glad you are enjoying them.

I guess Tidal is hoping all of those young people that paid CD prices for MP3 / AAC files will pay yet again for a higher rez file of what they already have. I asked my two grown girls if they ever heard of Tidal and they said yes, but their not going to spend those prices for a download just to play it in their car or their smart phone. I guess Tidal feels its up to the "audiophile types" to save them.

I just unsubscribed. The thread made me rethink how much I use it and pay for it. It wasn't worth it to me. Sigh...

Originally Posted by CPP

I guess Tidal is hoping all of those young people that paid CD prices for MP3 / AAC files will pay yet again for a higher rez file of what they already have. I asked my two grown girls if they ever heard of Tidal and they said yes, but their not going to spend those prices for a download just to play it in their car or their smart phone. I guess Tidal feels its up to the "audiophile types" to save them.

Chris
Subscribing to Tidal (or Rhapsody) should allow anyone to significantly reduce the number of files or CD's they purchase while still having access to the music. I don't see Tidal as a streaming service in my system. When I find a interesting release that I may want to try but not initially own, I just indicate that I want to "add it to my Sooloos library". That title now shows up with every other disc I own and have copied to my server. The only difference is a small Tidal logo on the album cover. Here is an example. I own a couple of Govi CD's and for that type of music that is plenty. I have added several other Govi discs via Tidal to my library and I can play these albums or use those tracks to add to playlists for as long as I maintain a subscription. I can almost guarantee that even if you could tell the difference between a Tidal version, the CD version or the version burned to a server in a A/B comparison, you could not identify which version was playing if you just walked into the room.

I am sure that many individuals use Tidal (or the other services) to stream all of their content at home or on portable devices. I use it to search out new artists, try out the music before I decide to order it from Amazon, or just add it to my library for the occasional future listen. I have saved a lot of money over the last few years not purchasing marginal releases or those one track CD's.

Just my thoughts.

I don't buy CD's any more because I find the SQ of Tidal through my Dac is better than my CD player. That's well worth $20 / month to me. I'm also learning about new music like never before.

If an individual has no Dac or a bad one, or if he or she just paid $10k for a new CD player, maybe $240 /year is a bad deal, but otherwise it's a steal! SQ is vastly better than Spotify, which I also subscribe to.

Originally Posted by Bongo

I don't buy CD's any more because I find the SQ of Tidal through my Dac is better than my CD player. That's well worth $20 / month to me. I'm also learning about new music like never before.

If an individual has no Dac or a bad one, or if he or she just paid $10k for a new CD player, maybe $240 /year is a bad deal, but otherwise it's a steal! SQ is vastly better than Spotify, which I also subscribe to.

Yes, I too am learning about musicians with whom I was not acquainted. This is part of the fun of this hobby. Even if you have 2 or 3T of music.

I'm hardly ever using the CD player now.

I'm currently subscribing to both of the above services. Thought I would have dropped one or the other by now. But I am pleased with what both have to offer so far.

I would suggest Amarra for Tidal. Very good SQ! Still working out some bugs, but way better than Tidal by itself. Also, when did $20 a month become expensive?? To each his own!

I still use Tidal and like Jim, I use it to search out new music. I pretty much have all the music by those artist I enjoy on other mediums be it CD, LP or download from other sites so for me its like using iTunes to "investigate" a new artist. The $20 bucks, man I spend more than that on tips for dinner so the fee is not a big deal but kids these days look at this a little different. Those young ones (24-35) that hang out with my kids, they would rather pay to download movies to watch with friends than download music. For music they just use their ipods or smart phones and plug them into docking stations with those amplified speakers and play music as "background" music or use the ear buds if hanging out at the beach. I just don't think they care about the quality of the music like "audiophile types" rather its the sound of their favorite artist being played and they can get that music from itunes and amazon.

Originally Posted by G-PROG

Also, when did $20 a month become expensive?

G.......I don't think anyone has said $20 a month is expensive. My point is the cost isn't worth the value to me. There's a difference. In the month I subscribed to Tidal I didn't listen to it more two hours total. The same was true for the two months I subscribed to Deezer, the other CD quality streaming service. It was the same when I subscribed to MOG, Pandora, and others. I found that I just didn't listen to any of them. It finally dawned on me that I am not really interested in streaming music from the Internet. To me the subscription cost is money wasted on something that doesn't hold my interest. I don't even need streaming music services to preview music I might be interested in purchasing since Amazon, HDTracks, and others all provide 30 second samples of nearly all the music they sell. There are so many streaming radio stations from all over the world that are fantastic sources for exposure to new music.. This alone provides an exceptional resource at no cost. I am not a big spender when it comes to new music but I usually purchase five to ten new CD's or SACD's a month and the occasional LP. $20 a month for a streaming service just doesn't serve any purpose for me. It has nothing to do with expense and everything to do with lack of interest.

I was an early adopter of Tidal. One of the early beta testers if you will. Integration of Tidal into proper dedicated music players was the turning point for me. Ever since Lumin and Aurender integrated Tidal into their apps, adding songs from Tidal to a playlist has increased it's $20/month value to me exponentially. Having the ability to build a play list from my DSD collection, my PCM collection and Tidal is a great benefit. I also use Tidal to preview the latest and greatest albums each week and occasionally find a real gem.

Originally Posted by Mike

I was an early adopter of Tidal. One of the early beta testers if you will. Integration of Tidal into proper dedicated music players was the turning point for me. Ever since Lumin and Aurender integrated Tidal into their apps, adding songs from Tidal to a playlist has increased it's $20/month value to me exponentially. Having the ability to build a play list from my DSD collection, my PCM collection and Tidal is a great benefit. I also use Tidal to preview the latest and greatest albums each week and occasionally find a real gem.

I agree, I'm listening to Joy Williams new album on Tidal as I type this. I will most likely buy it now. It really helps me discover new albums before I spend any money on them.

What Mike said. I wouldn't be very thrilled if TIDAL ended up going the way of the Edsel.

I'm a Tidal fan. I use it with Roon- fantastic sounding. Lossless and nothing else ...

I think that this is really interesting. A lot of people here using Tidal have fantastic sound systems, and they all like how Tidal sounds. I'm hopeful that quality sound production, ease of use, and the vastness of its library are valued enough by a broad base of users to help Tidal grow. I see an analogy in Apple products. Many people pay more for Macs and iPhones than their competitors because they provide a high quality experience. People also develop (emotional?) connections, as it were, with the equipment. I certainly find the combination of quality of experience and the depth of connection that I feel with music when using Tidal is better than I get with Spotify or iTunes or Amazon.

I find this development, utterly fascinating.

TIDAL was sooo niche; it was for us 1% of 1% of 1%ers. The last thing, you would think a mainstream, hip-hop mogul like Jay-Z would seek out.

But when I heard he was buying it, I thought a) well...it's not like he can just build a streaming service; so I guess you buy...what's available to be bought; and b) his celebrity and money, should be nothing but a good thing for the budding service.

Then he tried to make it...about "artists' rights", and whatnot; and honestly...it's a cutthroat business as it is. NO ONE is reported to be making any money; and everyone must surely know...as soon as it gets any kind of traction. The BIG BOYS (MS, Apple, Google, Amazon)...are just going to find a way, to step in and own the market anyway. And that's the strategy he wants to take? We millionaires and billionaires, are getting screwed??

But the niche product...could have survived. You know...dumb audiophiles, with more dollars than sense; they would have paid $20/month, for better SQ...and could have just gone under the radar. Now Jay-Z has taken that, and f-ed it all up I'm afraid.

^^ Kev, I'm somewhere in between your position...and some of those at the other end of the spectrum. I use streaming, a LOT. Depending on the phase I'm going through, and what I'm listening to; it's "half" of my material.

I know some guys say "I use it to audition new titles, and then if I like them...I buy it"? Really?? Kev's right; why must you own certain music. I mean...I have what I have, and that's plenty; trust me. In fact...like Kev; if you take a philosophical approach to this issue...I wonder how many of us, have more music...than we could listen to, in our remaining lifetimes?

I get it; even though it's files now, and not CDs or LPs (well, for many it still is). It's still about a "collection", and having that just-certain title...whenever you want to pull it out and listen to it. But that's the beauty of streaming; they own more sh*t, than you EVER will

I've been streaming for a decade or so; and I've been waiting for the SQ to come around. First they said, there wasn't enough bandwidth; now we know that's changed. Then/now the argument is...does anybody really care? Well...'philes do. I mean seriously; I defy you, to tell the difference...with some poorly mastered, new album...between TIDAL and the CD or rip. Save your money, for the material that does matter; where you can hear the difference.

But maybe that's what distinguishes me from some 'philes: I don't just listen, to the best-sounding stuff. That's the tail wagging the dog. I play what I like, and sometimes...it doesn't sound that great. That's where TIDAL is a god-send!

I signed up last weekend. The quality of the sound is pretty good through the Lumin. I still prefer the sound of my personal collection via the L-1 or USB drive. However, the access to so much content with a reasonably good quality of sound for $20 / mo. is fantastic!

Ha, I signed back up y'day! 3 months for the price of 1. I'm a sucker for a sale

Looking forward to Tidal emplementing Meridians MQA technology. This will be a major advancement to their streaming service.

I compared Tidal and Spotify through my Elyse DAC. I now use Spotify, and save $10 a month. Jay-Z better start making more albums again.

"I compared Tidal and Spotify through my Elyse DAC. I now use Spotify, and save $10 a month. Jay-Z better start making more albums again"


I don't use Tidal by itself.. I use Amarra for Tidal which is a big improvement over Tidal!

Sorry, I use Audirvana+ on my 8GB DDR3 MacBook Pro.

Originally Posted by Morten

I have tried to listen to some newer track compared to Tidal streams, I don't think I could pass a blind test. The Rips are done with DBpoweramp

I use a Aurender N100H to a Devialet--my speakers are very revealing...

I am sure I have bought my last CD--unless that it is not available on Tidal.

I am also impressed on how the Tidal works on the Aurender, with the hyperlinks and everthing.

I also enjoy it when I am at the office, I stream HIFI to my iPhone or Laptop (with a desktop DAC), when I listen to local rips they are compressed otherwise I run into problems with storage on the iPhone.

I for sure hope that they will be here for many years.

Kind regards Morten

Mine is a similar experience. My aging Naim CD player isn't state of the art, but it is musical and enjoyable. However, Tidal via Sonos through my PS Audio Directstream is much better sounding. The CD player is temporarily off of my hifi rack while I reconfigure space for all of my components, but I may not return it unless I want to have a way for a guest to play a CD.

I've done a casual comparison between the CD files on my NAS (lossless files streaming via Sonos) and Tidal, and I'm hard pressed to tell the difference. Unless an individual has a lot of hires music, and I don't, there doesn't seem to be an argument to own music files. Besides, Tidal does a much better job of searching and making music available to me than I could on my NAS.

Originally Posted by MarinJim

I compared Tidal and Spotify through my Elyse DAC. I now use Spotify, and save $10 a month. Jay-Z better start making more albums again.

I hear a big difference between the sound quality of Tidal and Spotify. Tidal is much better sounding in my system. The only reason I keep Spotify is that I'm concerned that streaming Tidal over my iPhone would eat up my Verizon data plan much faster than Spotify.

Originally Posted by Bongo

I hear a big difference between the sound quality of Tidal and Spotify. Tidal is much better sounding in my system. The only reason I keep Spotify is that I'm concerned that streaming Tidal over my iPhone would eat up my Verizon data plan much faster than Spotify.

I am glad in your system you could hear a difference. In mine it was a toss-up. Plus, for serious listening I use my DAC/transport, and Spotify to preview CD's.

Great

http://www.msn.com/en-us/music/news/...j02?li=AAa0dzB

Great

http://www.msn.com/en-us/music/news/...j02?li=AAa0dzB

Originally Posted by CDLehner

Great

http://www.msn.com/en-us/music/news/...j02?li=AAa0dzB

Yawn.

Originally Posted by asindc

Yawn.

Well...I don't know if it's quite so boring, to those of use who were early adopters...before Jay-Z touched the service; are worried about the direction he's taking it...and/or, are tied-in with certain hardware...like Aurender and the upcoming Aries Mini.

Originally Posted by CDLehner

Well...I don't know if it's quite so boring, to those of use who were early adopters...before Jay-Z touched the service; are worried about the direction he's taking it...and/or, are tied-in with certain hardware...like Aurender and the upcoming Aries Mini.

I'm a Roon w/Tidal user, having just gone in for the full boat. The article seems like it's treating a mole hill as much bigger than it is. I doubt very much that Jay Z would do a major concert in a few days to market the service if he was not committed to it.

Serious question: have you noticed a decline in service since Jay Z's group has bought Tidal?

Originally Posted by asindc

I'm a Roon w/Tidal user, having just gone in for the full boat. The article seems like it's treating a mole hill as much bigger than it is. I doubt very much that Jay Z would do a major concert in a few days to market the service if he was not committed to it.

Serious question: have you noticed a decline in service since Jay Z's group has bought Tidal?

NO; and your point is well taken Anthony. I haven't noticed any change, and it is kind of ludicrous...to think that Jay-Z is even at the helms of TIDAL.

He bought it, branded it; is promoting it...but it's not like he has his hands, in the day-to-day minutia. You're right; it's more hype, and a sexy story for the media to push.

I do worry about TIDAL "failing"; but it probably wouldn't have anything to do with Jay-Z, if it did.

Originally Posted by CDLehner

NO; and your point is well taken Anthony. I haven't noticed any change, and it is kind of ludicrous...to think that Jay-Z is even at the helms of TIDAL.

He bought it, branded it; is promoting it...but it's not like he has his hands, in the day-to-day minutia. You're right; it's more hype, and a sexy story for the media to push.

I do worry about TIDAL "failing"; but it probably wouldn't have anything to do with Jay-Z, if it did.

I think there is some cause for concern, only in that this model of music access is very new to the U.S. market and no one can reasonably predict yet how the market will respond. But all these quick hit pieces seem like "me too" piling on for the sake of click bating. Given that it is still quite new, it offers a lot and I think it is money well spent. And this is coming from someone who until recently did not give streaming much thought at all. Pandora and its "pop up ad every 30 seconds" approach is all but a distant memory to me now.

Originally Posted by asindc

I think there is some cause for concern, only in that this model of music access is very new to the U.S. market and no one can reasonably predict yet how the market will respond. But all these quick hit pieces seem like "me too" piling on for the sake of click bating. Given that it is still quite new, it offers a lot and I think it is money well spent. And this is coming from someone who until recently did not give streaming much thought at all. Pandora and its "pop up ad every 30 seconds" approach is all but a distant memory to me now.

Well...what I worry about, is only the "homogenized" services surviving. When TIDAL was launched, the whole idea was finally; at least 16-44.1 streaming (and I'm talking about the US; I know TIDAL was essentially WiMP, and there's services like Qobuz...but I think of them mostly in the European markets). I guess my concern, with Jay-Z "at the helm"...is I doubt that's the message anymore; now the message is "music controlled by the artists", or whatever.

For now...as asindc points out...not much has changed; but something is going to happen. It's losing money; hell, I think they ALL are. Music streaming...except maybe iTunes(?)...is waiting to turn the corner, like Satellite Radio was. Profits are not to be had, in the micro-markets; it's in MACRO-markets...like having it in every automobile. Or having it come pre-installed, on every cell phone.

That's going to have NOTHING to do...with maintaining the hi-rate, and SQ. In fact if anything...it'll need to be brought back down, to a) accommodate bandwidth, or b) lower pricing. And talk about your micro-markets; streaming audiophiles, willing to pay extra for higher bitrates?

That's why I hate the acquisition, and any story about how it's not going so well. I guess I had this pipe-dream, that TIDAL (or whomever); would stay this little, boutique service...that catered to us 1% of 1%-ers. We'd pay more than some kid, who didn't care about SQ on his iPhone...and that's how we'd keep them afloat.

With Jay-Zs takeover...TIDAL is just another player, fighting in the mainstream market. And we all know; as soon as this model becomes viable...Apple, Google, Amazon, and/or MS is just going to buy it/over-run it anyway. Think they'll give a rat's a$$ about SQ?