Thread: Streamer selection

My son is trying his best to help the 'old man' come into the 21st Century. Currently my sources are SACD/CD and LP's. In so far as streaming is concerned he utilizes an Eversolo DMP-A6. Even for this Neanderthal it seems pretty straight forward and intuitive.

EverSolo DMP-A6 Network Streamer & DAC | Audio Advice

Any others I should consider ??

Depends on budget.

The Aurender A15 and Lumin T3 are both excellent.


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Originally Posted by Mike

Depends on budget.

in the neighborhood of the Eversolo, less than 1k

Originally Posted by Mikado463

in the neighborhood of the Eversolo, less than 1k

Didn’t even know there was such a neighborhood.

Haven’t heard the Eversolo. Heard the name though.


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Do you have a music streaming service already?

If you are wanting to explore, for low cost, the Wiim units are well regarded.

But the Eversolo is well reviewed as well. HiRose is another brand.

Be sure to figure out where your music is going to come from, and that your chosen product will utilize it. Also check the output connection, and ensure you have an input somewhere.

It will take higher end devices to match a good vinyl, or SACD rig though.

Bones, thanks for the reply ! No, I haven't decided on a streaming source/supplier yet. As for the WiiM gear , I too have heard good things for their relative low costs, perhaps a good way to 'get my toes wet' ?

The files have to come from somewhere. I was active in “computer audio” about when it started. I have a medium sized collection of computer files. These were ripped from CDs, and more recently purchased from various websites.

Starting from Zero, streaming from online services works just great, and is wonderful for trying out new music. Some of the services are very good at extrapolation from a starting song/artist I usually start with a known album, and let Roon extrapolate until it gets too weird..

If you have an Amazon Prime account, Prime Music has good offerings, but a pretty basic service. Apple Music is better in some ways.

Spotify is the young people’s streaming king. My wife uses this service, as she is into alternative music, where I’m more classic rock, and electronic.

The HiRez twins are Qobuz, and Tidal. Both are good, with slight differences in perspective.

Spotify, and Tidal have a “Connect” service which simplifies use with some streamers.

Dave

Do you have a separate DAC or would you be using the one in the streamer. As to the DMP-A6 it is a well built unit with a good screen and and a complete software package that allows you to stream from Qobuz, Tidal, Amazon, Deezer, Radio Paradise and a host of others from inside the app. It is a good starting point that will also look good on your rack. Can always give it a spin from Amazon. I've had one in a secondary system since last July.

Not sure of the rest of your equipment, but it seems a shame to have to buy a new box of electronics just for streaming. That one looks rather better than the obvious choice (Bluesound Node), but it still includes a DAC that I presume you already have.

Many modern integrateds and preamps include a DAC and streamer, so I'd look at the alternative of getting such a beast and you'll have all your streaming requirements in that single box.

Dave - do you have a DAC?

Answering Tom & Jacks question on a DAC, my SACD/CD player (Marantz Ruby) DAC is accessible I do believe

If memory serves didn't Innuos come out with streamers in or under $1k?

Bones13 is correct in that you will need to spend for a quality unit if you expect it to rival the sound of your TT or disks. I can understand pickiing up something entry just to get your feet wet.

Looks like Future Audiophile has a review of that Ever unit, looked like same model number.

Originally Posted by Mikado463

My son is trying his best to help the 'old man' come into the 21st Century. Currently my sources are SACD/CD and LP's. In so far as streaming is concerned he utilizes an Eversolo DMP-A6. Even for this Neanderthal it seems pretty straight forward and intuitive.

EverSolo DMP-A6 Network Streamer & DAC | Audio Advice

Any others I should consider ??

The Eversolo is an excellent choice at it's price point.

Here's some others at different price points worth consideration:

Wiim Pro ($149) and Wiim Pro Plus ($219): WiiM Pro and Plus | Versatile Audiophile Streaming: Unleash the Brilliance

iFi Zen Stream: ZEN Stream by iFi audio - The high-performance, flexible and affordable Streamer from iFi audio
$399

Sonore UltraRendu Plus: Sonore - ultraRendu
$999

OpticalRendu Deluxe:Sonore - opticalRendu Deluxe
$1600

SOtM
sMS-200 Neo Network Player: https://sotm-usa.com/collections/sot...network-player
Regular price $500.00. You can also upgrade this to the Special Edition for an extra $250, the upgrade includes EVOX Caps, Internal 7N UPOCC copper or silver wiring, and eABS-200 heat absorber

SMS-200UltraNeo "network renderer" (effectively same as a "streamer"; no DAC built-in)
https://sotm-usa.com/products/sms-20...twork-player-1
$1200

You can also upgrade the internal clock system in the SOtM and add a Roon license.

I've owned the SMS-200UltraNeo for some years, and it's excellent. SOtM also provides excellent product support & service.

Innuos Pulse Mini: https://innuos.com/pulse-mini/
$1449

Lumin U2 Mini:
https://www.luminmusic.com/lumin-u2-mini.html
$2400

Hope this helps, Dave. Cheers.

Thank you Stephen !!

the WiiM Pro Plus seems to get alot positive attention for it's price point !

The Eversolo A6 was reviewed in FA, from that review I'd avoid the A6. The writer says he couldn't tell any difference between the A6 and the Bluesound Node. He mentions the Orchard Pecan Pie at $799 was better sounding than either. The review is worth a read if you are really considering the A6. He really beats up Eversolo for lack of support and response.

Sonore is a company I'd try, IMO, based on support and how good my Ether Regen worked. It should have a return period if like his other products.

Originally Posted by Mikado463

Thank you Stephen !!

the WiiM Pro Plus seems to get alot positive attention for it's price point !

Yes, it seems to be a very good value proposition.

Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

The Eversolo A6 was reviewed in FA, from that review I'd avoid the A6. The writer says he couldn't tell any difference between the A6 and the Bluesound Node. He mentions the Orchard Pecan Pie at $799 was better sounding than either. The review is worth a read if you are really considering the A6. He really beats up Eversolo for lack of support and response.

Sonore is a company I'd try, IMO, based on support and how good my Ether Regen worked. It should have a return period if like his other products.

The EtherREGEN is a product of UpTone Audio, not Sonore. IIRC, Sonore may have been a reseller of EtherREGEN for a time; I don't know if they still are. John Swenson does the design for both companies' products. Knowing first-hand how good a EE John Swenson is, I'm confident the EtherRendu or OpticalRendus are excellent products.

Also, the Eversolo DMP-A6 has received many positive reviews, so personally, I wouldn't draw a conclusion of "a less than positive review" from a sample size N=1...just sayin'

Darko's fairly recent review of the Wiim Pro Plus:

Dave, another choice may be the Cambridge Audio MXN 10. $499 on Amazon.

High-level specs:
StreamMagic Gen 4 Module – fast music retrieval & high-quality sound
ESS SABRE ES9033Q DAC – for the latest streaming capabilities
High-quality Internet Radio – using MPEG-DASH support
Spotify Connect, TIDAL & Qobuz built in – for best possible sound
Roon Ready – simple consolidated browsing of digital music sources

Very informative thread. I had no idea of the many streaming options available for less than $1k. Certainly a good era for music lovers wanting to get in the hobby for a reasonable amount of money.

Originally Posted by Mikado463

Answering Tom & Jacks question on a DAC, my SACD/CD player (Marantz Ruby) DAC is accessible I do believe

I am certainly in the minority here but a streamer is a trivial digital to digital converter that, assuming you have a capable DAC, will make little to no difference in the sound of your system.
It’s just a conversion from Ethernet to serial data. Any small microprocessor can do it without breaking a sweat.

If your DAC has a USB input, the DAC’s clock will control all the timing and data transfer. If your DAC has an AES/EBU or S/PDIF interface then the streamer performance does matter but a good DAC will attenuate any jitter form the streamer.

There are expensive streamer options and what you get with these devices is nice casework, an app that may be nice (or not) and maybe a pretty color display. All of these things are nice to have but don’t impact the sound quality.

Originally Posted by W9TR

I am certainly in the minority here but a streamer is a trivial digital to digital converter that, assuming you have a capable DAC, will make little to no difference in the sound of your system.
It’s just a conversion from Ethernet to serial data. Any small microprocessor can do it without breaking a sweat.

If your DAC has a USB input, the DAC’s clock will control all the timing and data transfer. If your DAC has an AES/EBU or S/PDIF interface then the streamer performance does matter but a good DAC will attenuate any jitter form the streamer.

There are expensive streamer options and what you get with these devices is nice casework, an app that may be nice (or not) and maybe a pretty color display. All of these things are nice to have but don’t impact the sound quality.

Tom, you're not in the minority at least when it comes to 'logical thinking' !

That is just false information. I started with a HEOS, then the Node, thena NAD M50.2 and now my ACS10. The M50.2 was better than the first two by a lot but the ACS10 is better than all of them by a large amount. Unless you have experience comparing you should refrain from misguiding people. All of the mentioned I just used digital out. The was also a large improvement when going from a printer USB cable to the AQ, large enough if you couldn't hear it you shouldn't be spending large money on high end gear.

If you gave me all my money back for the Aurender and any of the prior units for free I wouldn't do it, not even a consideration. I don't know why some of you persist in talking so much crap.

Originally Posted by W9TR

I am certainly in the minority here but a streamer is a trivial digital to digital converter that, assuming you have a capable DAC, will make little to no difference in the sound of your system.
It’s just a conversion from Ethernet to serial data. Any small microprocessor can do it without breaking a sweat.

If your DAC has a USB input, the DAC’s clock will control all the timing and data transfer. If your DAC has an AES/EBU or S/PDIF interface then the streamer performance does matter but a good DAC will attenuate any jitter form the streamer.

There are expensive streamer options and what you get with these devices is nice casework, an app that may be nice (or not) and maybe a pretty color display. All of these things are nice to have but don’t impact the sound quality.

Thanks for the clarification. I saw both names on my papers or website so didn't realize the difference.

I was a bit skeptical when the reviewer said he could hear no difference between the Node and A5, the none between the A5 and A5 Master. Valid points on response and support from the company though, if a reviewer got none then what chance would a consumer.

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

The EtherREGEN is a product of UpTone Audio, not Sonore. IIRC, Sonore may have been a reseller of EtherREGEN for a time; I don't know if they still are. John Swenson does the design for both companies' products. Knowing first-hand how good a EE John Swenson is, I'm confident the EtherRendu or OpticalRendus are excellent products.

Also, the Eversolo DMP-A6 has received many positive reviews, so personally, I wouldn't draw a conclusion of "a less than positive review" from a sample size N=1...just sayin'

Opps

Originally Posted by NewAlkyogre

This is the reason I advised the Allo and not a normal Rpi because the latter one doesnÂ’t have galvanic separation

That having said, a good power supply is very important and what I forgot to mention, an open rpi or a plastic case is bad for the interference: a good aluminium chassis is the way to go.

Agreed on both points, power supply and chassis.

Also, ground-plane noise reduction for these devices is very important as well. Connecting them to an Altaira or Gemini's GP-NR system pays big dividends in sound quality.

Originally Posted by Ritmo

Very informative thread. I had no idea of the many streaming options available for less than $1k. Certainly a good era for music lovers wanting to get in the hobby for a reasonable amount of money.

Yes, lots of options available these days. Personally, I think Lumin does this best, but they're in the higher price tier, and there are number of other very good value propositions at lower price tiers. If it were me looking in Dave's price range, I'd be looking at Wiim, iFi, Sonore, Eversolo, and SOtM. Just my 2¢, though. Cheers.

But unless you are willing to experiment with third party apps then that eliminates everything from your list except Eversolo and WiiM. If dealing with third party apps is ok then the best of the ones I've tried while avoiding Roon is JPlay for IOS at $50 a year. At the moment it does Tidal and Qobuz and has it's own Roon Radio style function. Internet radio is coming soon.

FYI, the Wiim Ultra, with a touchscreen, will be released soon... WiiM announces two new wireless audiophile streamers — one with a touchscreen - The Verge

FYI, I still use an old Squeezebox Touch as my streamer, with digital out to a Bel Canto 3.5 DAC, and still love the sound. At some point I'll consider upgrading streamer/DAC, but would need to hear significant improvement before shelling out big $$.

Gentlemen, again, thank you all for enlightening me. As my son reminds me, "I've remained behind the times for too long" !

Originally Posted by Jack

But unless you are willing to experiment with third party apps then that eliminates everything from your list except Eversolo and WiiM. If dealing with third party apps is ok then the best of the ones I've tried while avoiding Roon is JPlay for IOS at $50 a year. At the moment it does Tidal and Qobuz and has it's own Roon Radio style function. Internet radio is coming soon.

Roon and Qobuz are excellent "third party apps", and I really like them. Roon has been great integration for it's integration with Qobuz, for just sitting back and discovering new content, including all the playlists from various companies and organizations that have playlists on Qobuz and it integrates seamlessly with many makes of network bridges and streamers and streamer/DACs. While it doesn't provide the absolute audio quality I obtain, for example, from using the native Lumin app on a Lumin U2 or P1, to be honest, much of the time, that's just fine. I don't need "the absolute sound", absolutely all the time. Life's too short to obsess over these sorts of things. Many times, I just want to sit back, cuddle with the cat, and listen to a lovely recording.

Just to put this into context for the gang, as someone who worked as a PhD-level molecular biologist in Biotech and 10 years as a Design for Six Sigma Master Black Belt, one of the challenges I personally dealt with was being "Cursed with the Blessing of Perfectionism", or likely more accurately "Blessed with the Curse of Perfectionism".

And then...years later, when I started to understand the philosophy of "focus on what is PRACTICALLY SIGNIFICANT and do not obsess over what may only be "statistically significant", because most of the time (80-85% of the time), all that MATTERS, in the real world, where we all live, is what is...PRACTICALLY SIGNIFICANT. Is that last little bit, that last little 10-15% really that important? Well, sometimes it is, but most of the time, 80-85% of the time...it isn't.

So, I've just..."let it go", and adopted Hans Beekhuyzen's philosophy: "Enjoy the music."

In many ways, this is consistent with the Philosophy of Stoicism, which I personally resonate with.

Apologies for the philosophical digression, but my thought is Dave would agree with me on this.

Cheers, guys.

Stephen, now you understand, 'with age comes wisdom' !

Well said and yes, I concur !

Originally Posted by Mikado463

Stephen, now you understand, 'with age comes wisdom' !

Well said and yes, I concur !

Yes, it does. The irony is, Dave, as you well know, is we have to "suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune*" to get to that point in life where we finally obtain some wisdom.

* - William Shakespeare, Hamlet

Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

That is just false information. I started with a HEOS, then the Node, thena NAD M50.2 and now my ACS10. The M50.2 was better than the first two by a lot but the ACS10 is better than all of them by a large amount. Unless you have experience comparing you should refrain from misguiding people. All of the mentioned I just used digital out. The was also a large improvement when going from a printer USB cable to the AQ, large enough if you couldn't hear it you shouldn't be spending large money on high end gear.

If you gave me all my money back for the Aurender and any of the prior units for free I wouldn't do it, not even a consideration. I don't know why some of you persist in talking so much crap.

It seems that we have had different experiences with streamers. That’s ok.
I can only go on my personal experience, and that has been that I hear zero difference in the streamers I have auditioned in my system. That includes the Cambridge MXN-10, Aurrender N20, HiFi Rose RS-250A, Auralic Aries G1.1, Sonora micro rendu 1.5. Not an exhaustive list but quite a few streamers at different price points and functionality. DAC’s were Benchmark DAC3 HGC and Schiit Yggdrasil. No difference in sound. I have spent a bunch of time and thought optimizing what goes into my streamers with ultra low noise power, and optical break and USB isolation.

It’s like my experience with HiFi tuning fuses - no difference there either.

It’s unlike my experience with USB and power cables. Some significant improvements there.

Since neither you or I have any verifiable objective data to cite, it’s all opinion about our experiences. They are different.

Originally Posted by NewAlkyogre

i hear differences between streamers, the power supplies and the chassis material is audible.

Yes, so do I. The power supplies in particular can have a notable effect, as well as low- and high-source leakage impedance current. And, this carries over to Ethernet switches and routers, as well. The negative influence of leakage current and the concomitant threshold jitter are principle reasons why John Swenson implemented a "moat" in EtherREGEN.

The clocking systems also have a notable impact on audio quality as do the Ethernet and USB cables. For those that also support optical fiber connections, the optical transceivers and optical cable also can influence audio quality.

Lastly, one of the biggest culprits is ground-plane noise. Connecting your streamer, Ethernet switch, router to an Altaira CG hub or Gemini GP-NR system to reduce ground-plane noise will make the impact of ground-plane noise very clearly audible. The impact and influence of this class of noise is often more audible with "digital-domain-only" devices (music servers, routers, Ethernet switches, FMCs, network bridges, and streamers, etc.) than with quasi-digital (DACs) and analog amplification devices such preamps and amps, etc.

I have an Eversolo DMP-A6 in my garage system and it absolutely blows me away how good it looks and sounds for under $1,000. And the company is constantly issuing firmware updates. I have a WiiM Pro Plus in my bedroom for headphone listening when I am getting ready to hit the hay for the night. Also an amazing product which I’d highly recommend. I use Roon on both devices. Does it sound as good as my Lumin X1 did before I sold it when I purchased my Dutch & Dutch 8C active speakers (they are a Roon endpoint and have built-in DACs)? Probably not. Can I really hear a huge difference between the A6 and something that retails for around 15x its price? Perhaps a marginal difference but is it a night and day difference? No it isn’t.

Interesting thread to follow. Lots of options at many price-points.
One real simple way to "get one's feet wet," might be to plug a laptop (if available) into a DAC.
Not the best SQ but it will make the point for little output.

Of particular interest (as a long retired industrial arts teacher) however is Tom's (AKA W9TR) solution.
With his technical background and expertise a simple, complete low cost device was put together featuring plenty of computing power, several linear PS's and noise filtration.
All self designed and assembled holding up to commercially available products at a fraction of the cost. Certainly his stellar sound system would have revealed discrepancies.

While a project of this level is beyond my head, I salute the DIY spirit; so very well, precisely and humbly excuted.

John