Welcome to the AudioShark Forums.
Results 1 to 26 of 26
  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    747

    What adjustment is required to get rid of sibilence distortion?

    I'm noticing that I get distortion when there's sibilence on female vocals on enough LPs that I'm finding it hard to blame the LP pressing.

    On Saturday my cartridge was carefully adjusted (using a Mint tractor). I've made sure my table and platter is perfectly level. I'm not sure what else to do.

    Anyone have any suggestions?
    Speakers: Magico M-Project w/MPods
    Amps: CAT Legend -> CAT JL7s
    Analog: Kronos Pro Limited Edition / Black Beauty tonearm / Zyx Universe Premium, Ortofon A95
    Digital: Roon->Vivaldi DAC/Upsampler
    Cables/Power: Kubala Sosna Elation ICs & SCs / Shunyata Denali 6000T & PC's / Furutech outlets

  2. #2
    Audioshark
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Sarasota, FL
    Posts
    30,045

    Re: What adjustment is required to get rid of sibilence distortion?

    Lower the back of your Tonearm. If the cartridge is too tipped up, then the sound can appear quite sibilant.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  3. #3

    Re: What adjustment is required to get rid of sibilence distortion?

    Also check your stylus pressure to make sure you are tracking heavy enough for the cartridge you are using.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Chicago suburbs
    Posts
    1,583

    Re: What adjustment is required to get rid of sibilence distortion?

    Two great suggestions already on things to check with your setup. If the sibilance is primarily in one channel, increase the anti-skating force if the distortion is in the right channel or decrease if it's in the left channel. If it's generally even in both channels then the anti-skating setting is not the cause of the problem.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Chicgo, Illinois
    Posts
    205

    Re: What adjustment is required to get rid of sibilence distortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by madfloyd View Post
    I'm noticing that I get distortion when there's sibilence on female vocals on enough LPs that I'm finding it hard to blame the LP pressing.

    On Saturday my cartridge was carefully adjusted (using a Mint tractor). I've made sure my table and platter is perfectly level. I'm not sure what else to do.

    Anyone have any suggestions?
    Optimize azimuth and SRA. Setting things level is only a starting point. Chances are the ideal azimuth won't be with the cartridge level, for example. Setting antiskating correctly can help but is more the icing on the cake. I assume you've checked vertical tracking force.
    Brian Walsh
    Music Direct

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    747

    Re: What adjustment is required to get rid of sibilence distortion?

    Thanks, everyone. Certainly gives me a few things to try.
    Speakers: Magico M-Project w/MPods
    Amps: CAT Legend -> CAT JL7s
    Analog: Kronos Pro Limited Edition / Black Beauty tonearm / Zyx Universe Premium, Ortofon A95
    Digital: Roon->Vivaldi DAC/Upsampler
    Cables/Power: Kubala Sosna Elation ICs & SCs / Shunyata Denali 6000T & PC's / Furutech outlets

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    "Clueless" in California
    Posts
    1,318

    Re: What adjustment is required to get rid of sibilence distortion?

    zenith first then overhang is where id start. the mint tractor is a PITA, i gave mine away.

    when i used the mint and played a record i got some sibilance on every other record (certain stylus profiles are more critical), when i rechecked it against the grahams jig it was way off (to be fair, aligning a carts stylus/cantilever from above with mirrors and jewelers loupes is archaic at worst and iffy at best). I almost never experience sibilance nowadays using a Graham arm with his jig. For his invention Bob deserves a medal, or something more than just a patent.

    nowadays i'm playing around with linear trackers again and it's been quite revelatory.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    1,961

    Re: What adjustment is required to get rid of sibilence distortion?

    The only time I've run into consistent sibilance with LP playback was due to running a certain cartridge at the lower end of it's tracking weight recommendation. Once dialing up additional tracking weight (to the higher recommended range for that cart) the sibilance was not an issue. Where I noticed it most, was in massed strings. Dang that was annoying until fixed.
    Avanti Audio

    arc sp-11 or ls27 | arc d130 | vpi classic 2 w/periphery ring w/Si3N4 bearing & sapphire thrust plate & 2x jmw 10.5i | phoenix engineering eagle & road runner | ortofon cadenza bronze, miyajima zero mono | sentec eq11 w/ Sylvania 5751 TMBP & CBS 7318 | auditorium a23 | canton ref 9 dc | 2x m&k v125 | oppo bdp-95 | chord qutest | lumin d1 & sbooster | avanti audio vivace cables

  9. #9

    Re: What adjustment is required to get rid of sibilence distortion?

    The other thing is are your tubes going? I find if tubes are going microphonic, you'll hear distortion and sibilants in the midrange. The other thing I'd check is there a possibility something is being overloaded?
    Myles B. Astor, Senior Editor, PF, www.positive-feedback.com
    Zellaton Plural Evo speakers, Doshi Audio EVO phonostage, VPI Avenger direct-drive turntable/VPI 12-inch gimbal Fatboy/vdH Colibri Master Signature/Triangle Art Apollo cartridges, SAT LM-12 tonearms/Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, VPI 12-inch gimballed Carbon Fiber arm/vdh Black Crimson and Sumiko Songbird, Mutech Hayabusa cartridges
    Technics RS1506 reel-to-reel with low inductance Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi Audio EVO tapestage, AudioQuest Dragon Zero, Audience FrontRow, Ensemble PC, Skogrand, Kubala-Sosna Realization speaker cable, Ikigai Kangai speaker cable, SRA Craz 3/OHIO 2.3 platforms and Symposium ISIS/Ultra rack/platforms, Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Chicgo, Illinois
    Posts
    205

    Re: What adjustment is required to get rid of sibilence distortion?

    Interesting comments. Rob, I would expect Graham's jig uses one of the long established alignment geometries, so it's doubtful there's anything new there. I agree that precisely setting overhang and offset angle can be a challenge. For that purpose I use a SMARTractor, an expensive device for the individual but which has proven to be a very useful tool. Recently I aligned a Phantom II for a customer, and he was delighted with the results.

    Mike, I tend to go a little higher on the tracking force than the middle of the range, but merely increasing it may not be the best solution. Quite a while ago I encountered a system I thought sounded harsh, but upon adjusting the azimuth the highs really cleaned up and the system coherence and imaging improved dramatically, so much so that the edginess pretty much went away, all without adjusting the tracking force. In its initial dead level azimuth position the cartridge had over 150 degrees of phase error at 1 kHz. This was on an Eminent Technology linear tracking arm.
    Brian Walsh
    Music Direct

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    1,961

    Re: What adjustment is required to get rid of sibilence distortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by bpw View Post
    I tend to go a little higher on the tracking force than the middle of the range, but merely increasing it may not be the best solution.
    I agree Brian that increasing tracking force might not be the solution, but it was in my particular instance at that point in time.

    It's quite possible that what's causing Ian's issue is something entirely different. Hope he gets it sorted out and soon!
    Avanti Audio

    arc sp-11 or ls27 | arc d130 | vpi classic 2 w/periphery ring w/Si3N4 bearing & sapphire thrust plate & 2x jmw 10.5i | phoenix engineering eagle & road runner | ortofon cadenza bronze, miyajima zero mono | sentec eq11 w/ Sylvania 5751 TMBP & CBS 7318 | auditorium a23 | canton ref 9 dc | 2x m&k v125 | oppo bdp-95 | chord qutest | lumin d1 & sbooster | avanti audio vivace cables

  12. #12

    Re: What adjustment is required to get rid of sibilence distortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by bpw View Post
    Interesting comments. Rob, I would expect Graham's jig uses one of the long established alignment geometries, so it's doubtful there's anything new there. I agree that precisely setting overhang and offset angle can be a challenge. For that purpose I use a SMARTractor, an expensive device for the individual but which has proven to be a very useful tool. Recently I aligned a Phantom II for a customer, and he was delighted with the results.

    Mike, I tend to go a little higher on the tracking force than the middle of the range, but merely increasing it may not be the best solution. Quite a while ago I encountered a system I thought sounded harsh, but upon adjusting the azimuth the highs really cleaned up and the system coherence and imaging improved dramatically, so much so that the edginess pretty much went away, all without adjusting the tracking force. In its initial dead level azimuth position the cartridge had over 150 degrees of phase error at 1 kHz. This was on an Eminent Technology linear tracking arm.
    I think Ian is using the Doshi phono section with tubes though I might be wrong.
    Myles B. Astor, Senior Editor, PF, www.positive-feedback.com
    Zellaton Plural Evo speakers, Doshi Audio EVO phonostage, VPI Avenger direct-drive turntable/VPI 12-inch gimbal Fatboy/vdH Colibri Master Signature/Triangle Art Apollo cartridges, SAT LM-12 tonearms/Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, VPI 12-inch gimballed Carbon Fiber arm/vdh Black Crimson and Sumiko Songbird, Mutech Hayabusa cartridges
    Technics RS1506 reel-to-reel with low inductance Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi Audio EVO tapestage, AudioQuest Dragon Zero, Audience FrontRow, Ensemble PC, Skogrand, Kubala-Sosna Realization speaker cable, Ikigai Kangai speaker cable, SRA Craz 3/OHIO 2.3 platforms and Symposium ISIS/Ultra rack/platforms, Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC.

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Petaluma, CA
    Posts
    31

    Re: What adjustment is required to get rid of sibilence distortion?

    There's not a lot to add to all the experienced answers that have already been offered, except that sibilance is a indicator of conflict of the stylus in the groove (usually, but it can also be tubes somewhere in the chain, but it would probably show up elsewhere too) and all of the suggestions offered here can be the culprit(s). My only suggestion is that you might explore SRA, azimuth, and tracking force values farther up, farther down, left, right, greater, lesser, etcetera than what you think "should be normal". It's so often that a stylus is mounted well within tolerance, but still requires an odd or extreme optimization solution. Sometimes a cartridge tilted forward is actually the position that puts the stylus is the correct position in the groove. Good luck expelling the sibilance demon from your system!

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    386

    Re: What adjustment is required to get rid of sibilence distortion?

    I would reiterate that you should make sure the stylus is clean. Then definitely try a little heavier tracking force, then VTA/SRA.

    Otherwise it could be a tube or cap going bad.
    Vine, Vide, Velcro - I came, I saw, I stuck around.

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    747

    Re: What adjustment is required to get rid of sibilence distortion?

    Thanks again for all the suggestions.

    For the record I am not using tubes anywhere in my system.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Speakers: Magico M-Project w/MPods
    Amps: CAT Legend -> CAT JL7s
    Analog: Kronos Pro Limited Edition / Black Beauty tonearm / Zyx Universe Premium, Ortofon A95
    Digital: Roon->Vivaldi DAC/Upsampler
    Cables/Power: Kubala Sosna Elation ICs & SCs / Shunyata Denali 6000T & PC's / Furutech outlets

  16. #16

    Re: What adjustment is required to get rid of sibilence distortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by madfloyd View Post
    Thanks again for all the suggestions.

    For the record I am not using tubes anywhere in my system.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Have you fixed the problem yet?

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    747

    Re: What adjustment is required to get rid of sibilence distortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    Have you fixed the problem yet?
    Nope. I haven't had a chance to play around with it since starting the thread.
    Speakers: Magico M-Project w/MPods
    Amps: CAT Legend -> CAT JL7s
    Analog: Kronos Pro Limited Edition / Black Beauty tonearm / Zyx Universe Premium, Ortofon A95
    Digital: Roon->Vivaldi DAC/Upsampler
    Cables/Power: Kubala Sosna Elation ICs & SCs / Shunyata Denali 6000T & PC's / Furutech outlets

  18. #18

    Re: What adjustment is required to get rid of sibilence distortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by madfloyd View Post
    Thanks again for all the suggestions.

    For the record I am not using tubes anywhere in my system.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    What happened to the Doshi?
    Myles B. Astor, Senior Editor, PF, www.positive-feedback.com
    Zellaton Plural Evo speakers, Doshi Audio EVO phonostage, VPI Avenger direct-drive turntable/VPI 12-inch gimbal Fatboy/vdH Colibri Master Signature/Triangle Art Apollo cartridges, SAT LM-12 tonearms/Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, VPI 12-inch gimballed Carbon Fiber arm/vdh Black Crimson and Sumiko Songbird, Mutech Hayabusa cartridges
    Technics RS1506 reel-to-reel with low inductance Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi Audio EVO tapestage, AudioQuest Dragon Zero, Audience FrontRow, Ensemble PC, Skogrand, Kubala-Sosna Realization speaker cable, Ikigai Kangai speaker cable, SRA Craz 3/OHIO 2.3 platforms and Symposium ISIS/Ultra rack/platforms, Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC.

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    747

    Re: What adjustment is required to get rid of sibilence distortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Myles B. Astor View Post
    What happened to the Doshi?
    Sitting here waiting for someone to adopt it, along with the amps.
    Speakers: Magico M-Project w/MPods
    Amps: CAT Legend -> CAT JL7s
    Analog: Kronos Pro Limited Edition / Black Beauty tonearm / Zyx Universe Premium, Ortofon A95
    Digital: Roon->Vivaldi DAC/Upsampler
    Cables/Power: Kubala Sosna Elation ICs & SCs / Shunyata Denali 6000T & PC's / Furutech outlets

  20. #20

    Re: What adjustment is required to get rid of sibilence distortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by madfloyd View Post
    Sitting here waiting for someone to adopt it, along with the amps.
    OK so back to the overloading. Could the gain be set to high? Have you played with the cartridge's loading?
    Myles B. Astor, Senior Editor, PF, www.positive-feedback.com
    Zellaton Plural Evo speakers, Doshi Audio EVO phonostage, VPI Avenger direct-drive turntable/VPI 12-inch gimbal Fatboy/vdH Colibri Master Signature/Triangle Art Apollo cartridges, SAT LM-12 tonearms/Lyra Atlas SL Lambda, VPI 12-inch gimballed Carbon Fiber arm/vdh Black Crimson and Sumiko Songbird, Mutech Hayabusa cartridges
    Technics RS1506 reel-to-reel with low inductance Flux Magnetic heads, Doshi Audio EVO tapestage, AudioQuest Dragon Zero, Audience FrontRow, Ensemble PC, Skogrand, Kubala-Sosna Realization speaker cable, Ikigai Kangai speaker cable, SRA Craz 3/OHIO 2.3 platforms and Symposium ISIS/Ultra rack/platforms, Silver Circle Tchaik 6 PLC.

  21. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    289

    Re: What adjustment is required to get rid of sibilence distortion?

    I had that issue with too much tracking force. The real problem is you are not using tubesWhat adjustment is required to get rid of sibilence distortion?
    Chris

    Garrard 301, SME 2012r, EMT TSD15, A23 T2 Hommage SUT, Shindo Montille, Shindo Aurieges, Shindo ICs and Auditorium Speaker Cables, Auditorium A23 Hommage 755a Speakers.

  22. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    747

    Re: What adjustment is required to get rid of sibilence distortion?

    Lol, I am going through an anti-tube phase.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Speakers: Magico M-Project w/MPods
    Amps: CAT Legend -> CAT JL7s
    Analog: Kronos Pro Limited Edition / Black Beauty tonearm / Zyx Universe Premium, Ortofon A95
    Digital: Roon->Vivaldi DAC/Upsampler
    Cables/Power: Kubala Sosna Elation ICs & SCs / Shunyata Denali 6000T & PC's / Furutech outlets

  23. #23

    Re: What adjustment is required to get rid of sibilence distortion?

    Ian, try Allnic. Tubes for SS lovers like me!


    Allen



  24. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    747

    Re: What adjustment is required to get rid of sibilence distortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by socfan12 View Post
    Ian, try Allnic. Tubes for SS lovers like me!
    I did demo a 3000v. It was too non-transparent for me.
    Speakers: Magico M-Project w/MPods
    Amps: CAT Legend -> CAT JL7s
    Analog: Kronos Pro Limited Edition / Black Beauty tonearm / Zyx Universe Premium, Ortofon A95
    Digital: Roon->Vivaldi DAC/Upsampler
    Cables/Power: Kubala Sosna Elation ICs & SCs / Shunyata Denali 6000T & PC's / Furutech outlets

  25. #25

    Re: What adjustment is required to get rid of sibilence distortion?

    Interesting. Got it.


    Allen



  26. #26

    Re: What adjustment is required to get rid of sibilence distortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by madfloyd View Post
    Lol, I am going through an anti-tube phase.
    Ian,

    You might want to try those tube amps on your Magico...



    alexandre

AudioShark - The Best High End Audio Discussion forum.

AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.

The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.

At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.

We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!

Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com

Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.

Sincerely,
The Audioshark.org Team

What adjustment is required to get rid of sibilence distortion?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •